Weapon Mastery: Rise of the CC controllers. (Thank Devs 2 THUMBS UP!)

You used to have to cycle shields to stay alive. Has the game really gotten that easy? Where all you need is Reflection?

Only time I ever needed to do that was in Nexus/Para where i'd have to use shields when i was out of block to survive as Ice, never played fire in that content though.

Basically all other content reflection was plenty.

Let's be fair here. When the content comes out and is still difficult...what skills do you use? Because I see vids of the 'best tanks' using a full rotation. I see the vids of the 'best controllers' using one power (defib) for 95% of the game.

I know when I used to tank FOS way back when as ice I would have to use a full rotation or I'd be dead.

I mean...I just don't see it guys. I'm watching these vids all over the place and tanks are actively using powers.

Tanks doing Epic Odyssey Feat:






They all use a full rotation and actively use the powers.


Here are a list of googled trollers doing the Epic Odyssey Feat:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOezEMFkUpM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMSCOj2p9Q8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub-O01ScPVM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epEQmidV2x0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6zL4Ni2NmQ

Guess which SINGLE power they spam over and over?

I'm sorry guys...but I don't even play the game anymore and this REALLY upsets me. The fact that you're even having this argument makes me despise this community even more.

*These are NOT cherry picked. I simply picked the first 5 after doing a google search for epic odyssey feat POV (tank or controller).

Ok, lets actually be fair though, if you're a controller just using POT you're a pretty terrible controller, you can get a lot out of using more than just that.

Same can be said with tanks. You posted the barebones of what you NEEDED, so did I.

I don't remember FoS being tough for my tank, but I was playing Controller mainly back then, and I enjoyed it back then, I felt we weren't as stressed on power and the CC did help. /shrug.

If you want to use Nex/Dox as your only examples I'll repeat, they are the only content that tanking was ever difficult in the sense of just keeping agro and keeping yourself alive. Nothing before or since has come even close to matching that. Nexus was boring though as you just sat blocked poping out to rebuff/agro and dropping back into block. Para was entertaining because there were a bunch of things to keep track of plus if you stopped blocking at the wrong time... splat.

And, while you spammed Defib, a controller really made full use of all 6 powers in Nex/Dox. 1) PoT, 2) Defense debuff 3) Healing debuff, 4) shield, 5) defib, 6) SC.

Every power was important. Healing debuffs due to high regen on bosses actually really sped up kills. Defense debuff was 7% faster kills, so controllers debuffing was important in para/nex. Shields were huge for pick ups, being able to take a few stray hits while picking someone up without interrupting it is huge.

Did you not see the post with the vids? Your post is ridiculous. Debuffs. Healing debuffs!!! LOL.

7%!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!

Ahh dude you made me laugh so hard I almost want to come back and play!

Or not...

I mean you're trying to make it seem like controllers actively use these powers when everyone, even the anti controllers say you don't and shut up and give me power.

Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. And to imply that this WAS a skill based game. For who? Maybe the players that get to go through a rotation...not the controller! Proof is in the pudding!

What that you're posting videos of the content that I said was the only content where I needed more than just reflection? did you not read my post at all? Your post is just as ridiculous.

And actually nexus was completely doable with just IS and Reflection, you needed IS just to get agro.

Warlan if you can sit there with a strait face and tell me all content from now on will be as engaging and difficult to tank as paradox then I'll agree.

You obviously weren't pounding at paradox when it was hard were you? 7% could be the difference between a win and a wipe. A sub boss being at 7% health when the next came out could be disaster.

I can't-I'm not the devs. But tanks have been using active rotations since conception-and still are. Controllers have been reduced to power batteries since probably Gates speed feats.



http://player.mashpedia.com/player.php?q=5hnFGh_HQTc

That was content released TWO YEARS AGO. We've been reduced to mind numbing single button mashers for the last two years. Really? You're trying to compare the two?

Sorry, I quit when my role was reduced to crap. You're grasping at straws. Healing debuff. LOL. Just stop.

I quit trolling for the most part then as well... not completely I always kept an alt up just never played it much because you're right controlling was flipping lame.

But if you didn't play it don't sit there and laugh at things that were actually quite important it just shows your ignorance. Ravenger needed it and all the others benefited from it from what we saw.

I think it was before just before Gates, when people were outgearing the FoS raids and crawlers didn't need to be pulled off the ledge in Chasm. Neuromacs didn't need to be stunned, and it was less critical that the Zeta drone didn't get healed. That's when the Vit Wars started and we all became Speedrianing, pulse-beaming batteries.

To this day, I still intentionally pull Nueromacs on top of the group and say Merry Christmas. Pretty sure I stole that from Kristyana or Great Brit

I did play and found it boring. THUS I QUIT. Look, the healing debuff is ridiculous. The defense debuff might speed up things but it wasn't needed. 7% is rapidly overcome as gear is dropped and everyone does more damage. It could be argued that sending out another defib would > defense debuff. YMMV. Personally, I'm pretty sure the defense debuff wasn't doing much at all, if anything with the high defense these bosses were carrying.

Still like I said to another poster...I love it when people make my argument for me. Marked in red the relevant part. That's all there really is to it, and you know it. You're an intelligent guy.

I'm not asking for the tank role to be destroyed. I've asked for it to be made better. I've asked for them to get rid of turtling. CCing is simply not something I think a tank needs to be doing unless you want to get rid of the controller role. Pulling? Fine. Taunting? Of course. Protecting? Yes for sure. Mass stunning mobs? No. Meaningful debuffs? No. That's stuff the controller is supposed to be doing. Is it possible to give CCing to tanks? Yeah I suppose you could. But then you'd have to make the controller debuffs really meaningful. Not this 7% garbage. You'd have to make the mobs hit even harder and have debuffs that reduce their damage out in half (or like 30%) just so people can survive. Have genuine healing mechanics for ALL the bosses/sub bosses.

Either way the role needs to be made relevant again. To suggest that controllers are just QQers...meh the videos are proof. Nothing else I can say. Either you close your eyes and ears and go LALALALALALAL like a 2 yr old or we sit down and have a serious discussion that we ultimately have zero control over (it's in the devs hands). Note I'm not suggesting you are doing this, but some clearly are.

You're probably right. So even further back. How disappointing.

As i've said to dark, had this conversation been 3 years ago, heck even 2 years ago, I'd agree, but your suggesting changing something that's been around since beta. That's a HUGE change, maybe it's what is needed, but it's going to piss people off and I really think there has to be a better solution.

As for the QQ thing, yeah it's just a provocative response because really the reason controllers are useless right now is because the devs went overboard on fixing the issues that were plagueing controllers IMO. I think the power battery should still be part of their job, just I think it should be like back in t2/t3/early t4 before it became the ONLY thing you did. /shrug there has to be a way to get back to that time isn't there? And I mean you have people like the OP of this thread who are trollers who think WM is actually good for them, they're so ignorant they don't realize they've just lost their spot in a raid. So yeah, that is just me being a jerk /shrug

We've been complaining about this for awhile...

*sigh*

Yes it's been a complaint for a while, but removing half a role after 3 years? really reasonable?

And yeah, sometimes I give in and get just as jerkish as most on these forums /shrug, at least I can admit it

I don't think juggles is half a role. 1/3rd of the role is taunting. 1/3rd of the role is damage mitigation. 1/3rd of the role is pulling. More or less. I'd say that's quite a bit of stuff to do.

I mean healers just heal. Dpsers just do damage. The difference is they do it with full rotations which makes it interesting. Controllers just spam the one button.

I'd say 1/2 damage mitigation, which includes juggling as well as shields/block/etc. And 1/2 positioning, which includes pulling, as well as pointing targets away from the group and what not.

Juggles are important mainly for when you're running ahead of the group while they finish some trash you left behind. A juggle will give me a good couple seconds before I'm even taking damage, which is enough time for everyone to catch up. Outside of that they're just another damage mitigation tool.

I understand the concerns as a troller, it's just... do we really want another major gamechanger? Are we trying to outdo the NGE here in DCUO this year?