This is why people don't like the CR cap.

This actually doesn't have any meaning without the rest of the paragraph it's removed from. It needs the original post to create context.

But more on this below as I reply to Miserable...

You just linked to them so that I don't have to. Thank you. I wasn't policing your language use (there's a couple other forum users here for that) not to worry.

To your point about them being OP in old content, I think that's exactly what the situation is currently and it's bc they aren't scaled. I recently pointed out in another thread that SPs are due to be reorganized now for exactly this reason. And rationally it makes sense that they would scale it all since augs and arts specifically didn't exist when most of that content was created BUT they indicated they were excluded or at least not included to such an extent that it would be noticable.

Those quotes do no say that non-gear related stats are affected by scaling. It says "beyond scaled stat values" which specifically excludes them from them. Meaning they are not scaled. Charon's quote eludes to it and he mentioned it in the original thread I think you got that quote from ... but they explain it as "penetration". They're attempting to describe how much of those non-gear stats are affected (or not) by stat scaling and how much of a character's overall stats perform. Afaik and from the posts I've seen and you've offered here, they are not affected by it (at the time of this writing and Charon does imply that can change due to testing). It also means they can be tuned independently and the intent of describing them this way is that it gives players the peace of mind that they are not affected by the scaling (avoiding fights). Panderus' comments specifically double back and explain that they're excluded from scaling.

If you're reading that and interpreting it to mean they are also scaled tho, I don't know what to say. That's just not what it says/means.

NOW. That said, it reads on the very technical side -- it could be worded better for an avg player to understand. AND outside of context as you've presented it, it could definitely mean what you believe it to mean. Inside the context I've seen their comments, they do not mean that though. So, it comes back to BPM9001's original request for clarity. What they've wrote doesn't mean that, but maybe they did mean to tell us it was all being scaled, and overly curated their replies and posts obscuring the meaning? Like I said earlier in the thread, I could be wrong, but based on what I understand and what you just quoted back, I don't think so. Hopefully a post from a green name will clarify this and we'll know for sure. For the record it's in my own interests to be wrong on this since it's more substance for an anti-clamp argument.

I would argue most people are under the impression that they excluded those and if they knew their artifacts etc were *also* scaled down there'd be blood in the forums. Dev72's entire argument hinges around him believing they did this to make SPs more relevant (by scaling gear but not scaling SPs) so I can't imagine people like him being so pro-clamp if he thought the stuff he cares about most is also scaled.

Make sense?

I'm confused, is it nobody, or is it a small minority?

Regardless of the continuing dismissal of actual quotes by those who dismiss facts for the sake of "proving themselves right" or having that final word. See below.

If the gear chase is that important, the option is still there behind unclamped content to chase that gear, further, they added source marks to all end game content...so, any further arguments made toward "My progession has been removed by clamping" is indeed an invalid argument, and can be viewed as just throwing a temper tantrum for the sake of throwing one.

Now, before we get into "I want those feats in old content". ( a double standard argument if you were previously arguing the non importance of feats), that option is also there by putting your own group together to avoid running into a player that is not at your level.




MEPPS POST: Stats 100% determine your character's strength. It doesn't come from anything else (like combat rating, for example unless you use pets but ignore this). Stats from gear vs. stats from feats is an ancient debate, but ultimately there's diminishing returns. The gear gets you solidly into playable, the feats get you more. Having all the feats gets you more than having some of the feats, but the difference between those to options is less than the difference between no feats and some feats. And so on.

If you're a collector, want to be all that you can be, want to compete with other enthusiasts, or want to challenge the most challenging content in the game, getting all the feats makes sense and is a strong driver. If you're less...enthusiastic...getting a more reasonable some of the feats is just fine for playing the game, too.[/quote]

Copied and pasted straight from a Mepps post:

• 2021- League Buffs, Skill Points, Artifacts, Allies, etc. do improve you beyond scaled stat values and have a proportional return so that you still receive a worthy benefit from those
• 2017-(for stats revamp in regard to facerolling content): We are making refinements to the revamp content and addressing things that are broken. We are not returning to the "days of facerolling" or the "one-shot snoozefest," as players have put it.

From Charon:
Skill points, league buffs, generator mods, artifact, augment, and ally perks - etc. go beyond clamp scales. There is noticeable difference in testing results on PC Test with these set (before and after testing with CR being the same but adding or removing those goodies). The amount of these can be tweaked with proportional returns as needed if things go too powerful or too weak so we'll keep an eye on it and adjust as needed.

I just think that a good solution that would be a middle ground for both sides is to allow the player to choose between a clamped version of the raid for increased difficulty, or non-clamped for quick feat/style runs. I think that would also be a good way to gauge which side is really most enjoyed by the community. I think if people are complaining about it- they should be heard.. especially if there are valid reasons for the complaints. It seems as though there are.

Devs tend to pay more attention to people who use punctuation and can write a coherent sentence, in my limited experience.

Phrasing such as "Nobody didn’t even ask" can be difficult to understand. Using standard rules of English makes writing easier to understand. That's why it's taught in schools.

Cite your source, please? Thanks.

So you're saying that the devs are incapable of coming up with their own ideas to fix ongoing issues (let alone seeing what other games have been doing), that they needed solowing to guide them to such a massive change?

I mean you really can't see any other reason than some person on a forums said to do it?

To an extent they already have with percentages. However, the intent behind SP is that while gear puts a player into playable content, SP gives you more (Paraphrased from a previous Mepps post). Especially considering it is one of the allowed variables of bleeding through the clamp.

But, yes there are plenty of players (including me), that still does pursue SP, and although have obtained gear, have not abandoned a episode demanding new content while those SP are still there to be gained.

Assumption much? reaching? I would say yes, the emotional responses on here is overriding any logical feedback the developers can take notes of by spewing ignorance, because you disagree with the stats clamps, you gets to make the claim "Nobody" when clearly that is as delusional as someone with blinders on sleep walking lol.

Source marks have been restored to end-game, so if that is not a clear sign of the dev's listening to the feedback I just don't know anymore lol.

Likewise

Yes indeed, the change is needed because the game was not doing so great as far as challenge wise, so the genius move was to make old content useful again by incentivizing it with source marks, time grains and unattuned gear.

Weird that I couldn't quote lmao...

I should’ve clarified in my comment that when I made the statement “they should be heard” that I don’t think the devs ignore us. In fact I wasn’t referring to them at all in that specific portion of the comment. I was referring to the dismissiveness I’ve seen on the forums for quite a long while (I have read the forums for a while but just created my account) by other players to those who do try to offer feedback/criticisms. It leads to discontent when people are constantly told “don’t like it then leave” or something of the sort on threads like these. I think it’s counterintuitive and that’s what I was trying to get at. But that was my fault for not specifying it in my initial comment.

It's all good, I do agree with the dismissive attitude but that is just how forums work unfortunately, I've never been one of those types, but it comes to a point where you guys have to meet the developers and us stamp lovers half way with the complaints, especially since part of the issue was addressed by restoring marks back to end-game, for someone who is in touch or conscious of their gratefulness, there should be much less of an uproar towards the stat clamps. Just saying!

To Savior Prime, I sympathize with you. All I can recommend to you to do is what I am doing, which is avoiding Save the Universe and Omnibus content and playing only end game content, mostly Flashpoint. November will soon be here and a new dlc will replace this ... transitional content.

Someone up above complained about threads such as this one being redundant. It is futile to try get the pro stat clamp faction to understand there are people who are upset about the clamp and why much less expect them to comprehend your position as any point of view which differs from theirs is attacked and attacked and attacked. Maybe someday they will understand when something they spent money on and worked hard towards is significantly reduced for the greater good.

The game will continue on without us so take a break from it for a while if need be and wait for the Halloween event or the new November dlc, let the ones who love the clamped instances play to their hearts desire unhindered. Perhaps there will be something for us in November. This dlc is all about them. Plus, so far no one is making us play it. I personally have reduced my play time significantly as I mainly just log on to socialize with my league and friends.

I will say this about Save the Universe, it is very polarizing . Civil discourse is no longer civil. Friends have been lost, at least from my experience.

I'm one of those, as you say, pro-clamp. I am also however very aware of the criticisms and I recognize their validity. This is a massive culture shift in the game. For me, I like it, but I'm also VERY aware of why some people don't. I left the game for a few years, simply because it had stopped being a consistent challenge, it was a sporadic challenge. DLC drops, grind new gear, DLC becomes easy, rinse, and repeat. We're now just micro tweaking our toons, with skill points, and artifacts. The content will still get easier, but through knowing mechanics, and our toons being more finely tuned, rather than a gross power jump that comes with a new tier of gear.

How are these two sentences not contradictory? I'm just curious, truly, and I in no way mean to offend. I'm just confused, shouldn't the content remain challenging?

Crying baby meme, nice

I have 100% sympathy for players who have played for years and grinded and sweated over feats to obtain their SP as content was released. However, I have no empathy for players who rushed to endgame with 80SP and have been slowly going back to complete old feats.

Adding source marks to endgame is the first step to fixing things. The Save the Universe feats should never have been added. Going back into old content should not have new feats. It's recycled content, crap like LPvE all over again. The stat clamp would be far easier to take if those feats weren't added. With them, some people won't see old content as optional.