Theres no progression to beating raids anymore.

When i choose to like posts i do so not necessarily because i always agree with the content but rather because it is either thought provoking, effort is put in to making it, or it makes me laugh even if i disagree with it.

I also do not hold grudges, unlike some of the other people seemingly around here, not necessarily you even, that seem to not be able to debate or disagree without personally getting offended.

I don't have to justify to you why i choose to like a post although i do find it humorous that you're clicking the like button to find out who dares threw a like on it

Truth be told you don't want to continue to go back and forth with me because its obvious that we by and large agree with each other but in the area we disagree, the time frame of a DLC, I've defeated your argument using your own position and you know it, to summarise.

I asked you for an example raid you saw as a decent challenge, you refused to answer an evaded the question, the reason for that is obvious, the answer is either

1. Paradox or something earlier in which case you fall into agreement with me that you probably need a 9 month release period and not a three month

Or

2. You believe challenge still existed in a raid that was beat day 1, which means your entire argument falls over about a lead in gearing up time being required to obtain that challenge because all the modern raids were beaten day 1, and if you choose one if those then you self defeat your position.

The only other alternative is that you don't think anything has been challenging to date and that would be an interesting position for you to now take given your abundance expression of love expressed previously for the Origin Crisis DLC.

No, the reason you don't want to go back and forth with me is because im not entirely buying your position, i agree with it in bits, but you're only wanting to discuss the topic with like minded people, you're not actually after discussion and debate you're just after positive reinforcement of views you already hold and have no intention of changing them, no matter what views are pit forward, the irony is you accused me of the same.

I chucked a like on your post by the way, yo welcome brother

I choose to not go back and forth with you cause no matter what anyone says to you in any post you always move the goal post in some way to keep arguing. I'm not about that and it never goes anywhere positive with you, it only ends up in page after page of bull. Everyone sees and knows this but some people are nicer than me and don't say it.

Edit: I'm also not here to lay the system out perfectly, I'm just providing feedback as are you. If they were to make a move toward it and asked for feedback then I would sit down and try to come up with what I though would best work. Right now I'm just giving out vague ideas that would help build a better progression system than what we have now.

If what i say is such bull explain my post like ratio? You think im alone in my viewpoints?

There are no goal posts, my position has remained the same the entire time

1. Make content challenging

2. Put in a gearing up time.

3. Increase the duration DLCs.

some people just don't seem to like to be challenged, they don't like to discuss ideas and have to justify there opinions and positions and when they're challenged they just start throwing sand and shutting down.

All they're really after is confirmation of their pre-existing bias or position, they never actually want to discuss the topic they just wanting people to come in and nod their heads in agreement.

When i discuss topics i continue to discuss them and go back and forth because the conversation is engaging, this is what rational adults do when they flesh out ideas, whether agreement is inevitably obtained or otherwise.

It seems however there is a segment of modern society incapable of this task because of a perpetual need to be in a constant state of personal offense that someone dare to express a differing viewpoint so they just start screaming insults. Mankind throughout its history expanded and continues to expand because people continue to debate ideas without taking offense.

In fact if someone has the will to debate something with me despite the fact we disagree, i respect them more for it, there's numerous people that post on these forums for example i don't agree with but i certainly respect them.

To avoid digression though and to come back more directly to the topic at hand, i think what's going on here is you want to have your cake and eat it too, you don't see how one is detrimental to the other.

You want your challenge, but at the same time you also want fresh content every 3 months despite the fact you know full well this game has short sideways progression that moves from DLC to DLC within that short period of time and the only way to realistically stop that is to lengthen the release windows.

People will get upset though because they'll get less DLCs each year and what they'll continue to do is spam replays day 1, smash the DLC then come rage out on the forums that they're bored and demand new DLC.

The players in this game don't want a grind and if they do they'll use the tools the devs give them to undermine it every step of the way.

I notice you still haven't answered the question, so still waiting, what raid did you find as the ideal challenge? Was it paradox?

Look at my ratio lol. Well look at my in game credit and accomplishments compared to yours. And just like I said heres you going on and on and on.

I don't care about your post count, i don't care about your ratio, in game cred or accomplishments. They're entirely irrelevant to the point of which you're now deflecting.

You asserted that I posted "bull on the forums" if that were true, it would be evident in my profile, people would hate my posts, but clearly they don't.

I pointed out my ratio not in an attempt to trigger some sort of response on your part where you felt the need to compare tool sizes, but rather to show you that clearly i don't post bull if people clearly don't disagree with me.

You were trying to isolate me as a rogue, unique in my opinion in an attempt to diminish my differing perspective without actually adequately supporting your own position.

So to focus on the necessary question again,

What was you idea of the ideal challenging raid in this game? Was it paradox, fos, prime?

Did you find HiveE challenging enough, was SGE challenging enough?

If you can't even answer that question then how do you expect your idea to have any meaningful merit, you aren't giving a reference point to what the challenge is, you're asking the devs to make content more challenging, but not how challenging... what are they supposed to do with that sort of feedback other than nothing?

It drives you nuts i won't answer your question doesn't it lol. I've posted enough stuff in here to you and others you should have a good idea of what it think.

I'll answer the difficulty question for you cause i haven't spoke on that yet. For elite i want a challenge, a real challenge like nexus, paradox level but if it was a bit less thats ok. I just want to be challenged and i know many others that would also. And reg should stay the same difficulty as i've stated.

If all you have to say is more long winded versions of you cant have hard raids cause the content window is only 3-4 months don't bother cause that makes no sense.

So between what i said here and my other posts that just about sums it up what i would like. You can agree or disagree

And the only reason you have a ratio like that is cause all you do is post stuff on the forums that relates more to the casual player and forums are full of casual players. (not downing anyone just saying)

The thing is I've explained myself its you who just can't grasp a simple concept. Sorry if I don't want to repeat myself over and over.

No it doesn't bother me at all, your confusing persistent questioning with frustration, I'm not frustrated with you or upset, more amused.

The refusal to answer the question reflects on you and your argument not mine.

Notwithstanding that point i see we've made progress and you've named Paradox.

That's fine, many veterans of the game will point to that raid as a difficulty benchmark.

With that being said of course, you've moved into the position i asserted you would, although you continue to deny it, which is your prerogative of course, in that the best difficulty level this game has seen was coupled with a DLC relevancy window that differs from the 3 monthly raid spam we're seeing now.

So in fact whether you realise it you've reluctantly agreed with me because in order to have the difficulty you suggest your implicitly saying we also have to extend that window.

I would assert to you that paradox would not have been what it was had it been squashed into the modern 3 month release window, it would have been the hot mess were currently experiencing, the very thing you're asking to change.

Im certainly not advocating you go as extreme as wows release schedule, but somewhere in between like 6-9 months is far healthier, which is a return the DLC even you cherished above all others

Of course that isn't to even say 1 dlc per 6months either to clarify, you can release a small dlc in between like they did with Trigon, you just don't supersede your raids so quickly that's what made it so much easier to push dox to that limit.

Unfortunately i do recall however that the devs thought that level of difficulty was a mistake and they'd never do it again, because whether we liked it or not, it probably did divide the community and drove away as many players as it did retain, but seperate issue.

I didn't respond cause I knew the answer I would get and lo and behold I got it. You can't have hard content in a 3-4 month window. Yes you can. We have had a few good raids within the 3 month cycle but few and far between or they get nerfed. While Paradox is my ideal level I did say I don't mind a bit less. And difficulty has nothing to do with how long the dlc lasts for it has to do with raid design.



How do you explain you saying we can't when we have?? All thats needed is more of that and a better curve on the power of the raids so you need a few pieces of gear first like I've stated before. Thats it, its simple but you make it into this giant crazy complex thing that it isn't.

And just for clarification I'm only speaking on elite being difficult, reg can stay easy.

Is your position now not contradictory though? In your first statement you said you didn't want raids beat on the first day but now say that while Paradox your ideal raid there have been a few good raids within the 3 month cycle? All the raids within the 3 month cycle have continually be beaten day 1 in the last DLC's gear, this will also include the ones you're now saying are of acceptable difficulty level.

Can you not see your contradiction?

But see this is where you don't take into consideration the progression I've been talking about. You couple those few good raids we've had along with needing to get a few pieces of gear before you can survive certain attacks and there you have it challenging elite raids and having to grind out some gear before you beat it.

So you're suggesting you buff the raids further you say were already appropriately challenging. ok sure.

Question though, if you're going to increase the lead in time for the gearing up are you going to reduce the cost of the vendor gear?

So in a way your buffing the raid but your not cause the scale of the new gear would be larger so when you had the gear you would be on par but when you didn't have the gear you would be getting your butt kicked.

I didn't sit here and do any math but if you only did 3-5 days with no resets before you could gear up for the raid that wouldn't affect anything cause you can only do one raid a week with no resets. So basically as long as the raid was beatable within the first week it should be fine no one would be missing any marks.

So you're suggesting we gear up with drop gear and the stats on that gear would be greater to the extent where they make more of a difference?

of course you'd have to buff the raid though to achieve that right, because otherwise the difficulty will sit in the same place as where it was already beaten day 1 with old gear, surely you'd have to move both.

Yea drop gear and depending how many marks you can get in a few days maybe a piece of vendor gear. The stats on the drop gear would just have to make sure the percentages increased enough or just go back to a set stat for each rarity of gear. Green= said stat and blue is slightly better and so on. Probably set stats for each rarity would be best for that. It would also work out much better now then it did back in the day because of augments.

Sure, fine, we're now in agreement then. If it was going to involve gearing up with full vendor gear or significant drop gear I'd have continued down my track of saying, no lengthen the window of the DLC exactly like origin crisis or drop the vendor prices if you're expecting people to gear up twice.

part of why people go from elite to elite each DLC is because they don't want to have to spend twice the marks, one buying vendor gear the next buying elite.

of course the other solution to that is to leave the vendor gear priced as is and significantly reduce the price of the elite gear so that it's more of an upgrade to gear than it is gear in itself.

In earlier posts I already said 3-5 days was a decent place to shoot for. Actually most of what I just said except for a good description on difficulty and set stat green/blue/purple gear was in earlier posts. Now I'm not trying to be rude but if you read some of the things I said more closely we wouldn't have gone through a page of nonsense to get here. I might not have said them directly to you but most is out there.

Actually the critical juncture occurred when I started discussing the fact I felt you needed a longer window, I still do think that you're better off with a longer DLC window, I still think that's ideal over and above your suggestion of a weeks lead in time because I think extending the DLC window gives you an opportunity or better opportunity to make content even more challenging than you've suggested.

What I'm doing though is acknowledging the merit in your position despite the fact I don't think it's ideal because I am capable of compromise despite your belief I'm maybe not lol.

The reason it took a while to get here is because you didn't want to answer the question either, I appreciate you felt you were repeating yourself, sometimes it's just easier to go with the conversation however even if that means a degree of repetition.

Nevertheless we've reached some degree of consensus in the end and as you can see a constructive discussion can actually be had

I've enjoyed the conversation Crappy, thank you.

It still amazes me on these forums the amount of exteraness a person has to do to make their point. "By the merit of your disposition is equal to the power that be" When I read stuff like that it doesn't make me think a person knows what they talking about anymore then someone else.

Back on Topic Crappy why are you beating a dead horse, that ship has sailed Bro, this game is what it is now. those days of Dox and Nexus needing to struggle through that alert to get gear for a raid is long gone. This game isn't built around progression, the model they have for making money seems to be working fine. I play the game now and just enjoy it for what it is when I want a challenging MMO I get on Eso or Xiv.

I just want to have a little bit of a challenge, and I thinks its both a terrible and sad system where you can jump in brand new so called elite end game content first day and beat it most of the time without acquiring one single piece of new gear.

This game could attract a much better population if it was designed a little better and it has so much potential that is being wasted.