Bosses

Wrong about what? Specifically?

Didn't T5 have 2 pieces of gear completely missing for like 6 months? Ain't wave the reason we have AM/WM? Didn't 5 players get all the feats in wave? When it was still relevant? Didn't T5 start with gear outside of vendor? T5 is probably the main reason we are where we are, but players are constantly using wave as the shining beacon in the dark. Use FOS 2, prime or Inner. Wave is one of the main reason we are where we are


Pretty much everything in this statement.
Your first part is mostly true. There was pcs missing from loot

No AMs were not introduced foe the reasons you state. Originally they were called "awesome mechanics" They were supposed to be how other powers could play at same level Light / Rage / Celestial were capable to play at. Feel free to look up Spyte Awesome Mechanics (yes I know later it was changed to Advanced

No...nobody LET me make this perfectly clear. Nobody 5 manned Wave, not while it was end game.
In fact Spytle himself stated less than 6% of the ENTIRE population even completed wave PRE NERF.
I know because at the time it was a race on the boards who could do it first with video proof. My old league was like 3rd or 4th to show proof.

You say use FOS2 (many of us do) or Inner (same)...then you say Prime???
You mean the raid that you could beat without a tank since they had the roleless buff active pfft.

Nexus and Wave had 1 big issue (besides graphics) and that was enrage timers.
But OC was damn near perfect in terms of how each step was a gear check, forcing roles and mechanics.
Thats why it was so loved by many.

The league Reasons 5 manned wave and got speed feat and all bosses up feat. Their rage dps melee'd the entire raid. A. Might have been out, but Wave was still definitely the hardest raid.
Prime was beat 1st day. They used an 3xploit that was later fixed. If we are using exploits, how fast did One Piece get feat from Wave(I think it was legit).
Wave and Nexus is over used as the beacon of light. Am/wm were introduced because of the 2. Remember Spytle being ridiculed for his light dps? WM was released right after that. If not for Wave WM or AM would have never been introduced

Ok let's talk a bit about history-
1) Rage came out in War of The Light 1 DLC which was Nov of 2014. OC came out in May of 2013.
So no I was way after nerf and not even top tier content at the time. WM had already came out by this time which made a HUGE difference in damage out capabilities.

2) You referenced PBG not me. Prime was never really that hard, In fact for most groups it would have been the 2nd hardest T4 raid.

3) No they even said the feat from Wave that One Pieced used was exploiting the environment and quickly fixed it. It still took them a LONG time to do it. One Piece was an elite league...the average leagues struggled in Nexus and couldn't do DOX at all.
Again War Party was one of the first in US PS to do this raid and it took 6 hrs (pre-nerf)

4) Spytle's main character was Milkman and he and pretty much every other dev save a few were / are terrible at this game.

Wave was still hardest content. It was a big thing when they did. I'm pretty sure Rage was here before WOTL. WM made rage and Celestial weak. We talking feats, not just raid. Wave wasn't really hard either if all the rooms were down. Victorious Secret was an elite league also. Hero version of nexus was weak. The villain version was hard, but almost everyone was beating it. Everyone was beating Wave with 2 bosses down. Wave is hard with all 4 bosses up.

Rage released with WOTL
Here is the video from DCUO

Let me just ask this though...If Wave was not that difficult. Why did the devs 1) State that a few months of it being out that less than 6% of the population had beaten it? 2) Nerf if 3) Release SOT and specifically say that they messed up and should have released this first? Not bashing...these are legitimate questions I'm asking someone who says WAVE wasn't that difficult. Furthermore on the FNL with Odyssey who was considered on of the ELITE leagues ATM...couldn't even get past the first room without the devs giving them higher gear.

No not everyone was beating it...sure maybe by the time WOTL came out and WM..but prior to that. I'm sorry, but you're still wrong.


I'm not saying Hero or villain side was better or harder. In order to get thru WAVE most had to get thru Nexus in order to be able to survive Wave. Remember the gear that dropped ther was lower than gear in WAVE. That's what I meant about progression and why OC was perfect.


I'm not trying to have a keyboard war with you, but very clearly your timeframe and with that your information is incorrect. I get it, we don't like the same things. At least have your info close to being right, because you are comparing apples to oranges as your gear was vastly superior by the time you were in WOTL vs when you trying to complete DOX pre nerf.

Rage dropped with WOTL, which is AB. WM came out with in t6 with Themyscira Divided. I said AB might have been out, but Wave was still the harder raid. AB to TD is a nice distance apart. I know for a fact rage and WM didn't drop together. Your timeframes is off

There is a Minimum CR to get into a raid, and there is a recommended CR. Don't try the raid at minimum CR, unless you are looking to get carried by more advanced players. At the minimum CR you can't really contribute to the group at all. It's set that low because people like to be carried by league mates instead of playing through the content.

Also, Raid content is designed so that the minions will kill any player that is not a tank. The tank is supposed to get things attacking them, then the healers heal and the damagers damage and the controllers wave their pom-poms. It's teamwork.

Finally, you'll have a better experience in Raids if you have a microphone hooked up so you can talk to your team-mates.

Cheers!

Ok let's make this really SIMPLE-
Your statement "The league Reasons 5 manned wave and got speed feat and all bosses up feat. Their rage dps melee'd the entire raid."

Why is this a matter of contention? WOTL include (originally the power of RAGE)
Release. War of the Light Part I is an episode pack forDC Universe Online released on January 22nd, 2014 for subscribers and January 28th, 2014 for non-subscribers.


Now- in order for someone to play Wave as a rage player, it would have been close to 1 yr after the OC dropped
Origin Crisis is an episode pack for DC Universe Online, released on May 8th, 2013 for subscribers and May 15th, 2013 for non-subscribers

On top of this- you also had something called Weapon Mastery that dropped very shortly after this making pretty much every DPS up till that time look silly with it WM crits or as an old forumite used to say FWEEEM! Release. Amazon Fury Part I is an Episode pack for DC Universe Online released on April 30th, 2014

Again- NOBODY. Was 5 manning pwave at level you and I mean NOBODY. Sure maybe after nerf, maybe after SOT Release. Sons of Trigon is an Episode pack for DC Universe Online released on August 29th, 2013 where you could get higher vendor gear and devs admitted it was done in reverse. But you said a rage player . Which was 3 DLC later IE NOT top tier content as WOTL was (little thing called CR with higher stats and mods helps) and most likely this video was done after WM was released shortly after WOTL which in fact made EVERYONE hit much harder.

See that's the problem with your timeline.
Feel free to respond, but I'm done with this discussion.

Oh and BTW I saw the speed feat for Reason (good run too) It was done in January 2014
the 4 man was done in April

Actually it would have to be after Sons of Trigon, the gear in that episode was only level 86, the gear dropping in dox was 88.

What's your point? You people just argue in circles. I clearly said multiple times AB might have been out, but Wave was still the harder raid. Reason 5 manned Wave when it was the hardest content. Who is 5nanning zooe or USE and getting all feats?

I can understand what you're saying, but the challenge makes the game funner for me to play. I kind of hated Deluge so I took a break and started the Titans DLC about 3 weeks after release. My CR was too low for villain LFG groups, so I random queued into the raids for Titans Cred (of course ending up with hero side). Both raids easily would take an hour with randoms. People refuse the move out of strafe zones in machine, tanks stand in the electric AoE without moving. People use supply drops on Deathstroke, ignore nullifiers, ignore vents on Terra and use orbitals. Of course there is only 1 of each role and the 5 dps refuse to pick anyone up. Alert last boss is difficult without a healer or troll if you ignore the drone rooms.

I finally got enough gear to join villain LFG groups and Machine reg is around 10 minutes. Hive Elite can be tough with weak tanks or dumb dps, but good groups can finish quickly. I haven't tried Machine elite yet because I never see any villain LFG groups calling for it. I'm actually sad about not having more time to play this episode, when I didn't really care about Deluge. I hope the devs can find a balance for everyone, but I want to see more of this. The recent raids have been so generic with dps cycling through their supply drops and orbitals that it's nice to have a change of pace.

First of all, I want to thank you for disagreeing with me without being nasty about it.

Everything you said is true, which is part of the frustration. I KNOW we could have been done in a third of the time if people would just pay attention to what’s happening on their damn screen. And the toxic behaviour that can potentially ensue is another level of pressure.

Also it’s just nice to do stuff first time so I can feel like I’m actually playing the hero/villain, rather than just a video game player character that gets an infinite number of cosmic mulligans.

Also, the kneeling thing annoys me so much! Like, dude, you’re not even unconscious, never mind dead, why are the healer’s powers suddenly not working on you?! Why don’t you just drink that damn soda and get back up?! Why is the enemy that said they were going to kill you blatantly ignoring the fact that you’re very obviously still alive?!

I just wish they’d keep all this mechanics business in elite raids so I wouldn’t have to worry about all of that. I can lead a horse to water, but I just can’t force it to drink and having to try is exhausting.

same, ran the hive reborn yesterday for the first time with 6 dps and a tank as healer yesterday and the tank died REPEATEDLY and ONLY the tank for most of the mission. however i do like the mechanics, it's really on the game developers heads at this time for not having more than a basic tutorial in this game and one that doesn't delve past the dps role. it wouldn't be too hard to convert the side missions we saw outside of level 4-30 mentor mission areas into full fledged support role tutorial mini missions that still shell out much needed marks for tier 1 gear so that the fresh level 30's have both the gear and knowledge to proceed even past tier 1. granted players will still skip past all that with the cr boosts, but at least the general populace would be slightly more prepared.