Test Discussion GU 57: Light Mid-range Adjustments

Thank u a ton tunso , I really appreciate all ur help

It's funny, passion doesn't always lead to good judgement. You have a couple of players here who are repeatedly showing proof of their claims, and trying to offer feedback based on what they see and do.

Then there's mostly two guys not doing much other than crying HL isn't competitive and refusing to see evidence for what it is. There's even claims that sparring targets aren't good to test HL, when all other tests so far were done on said targets... For Doge's sake, might as well come clean and admit you want special treatment, for reasons.

One thing that HL melee has in its favor is counter punishment...on live when I am able to successfully counter NPC's I get extra 20K+ crit...the frustrating thing is npc's ability to BB block clip..im sure those who do alot of tanking know what im talking about...its like the BB is cast simultaneously with a block leaving virtuously 0 window for counter...if the devs can look into this behavior maybe more players will feel a lil bit better about 0M rotations...personally I LUV to melee on my rage toon...I like the HL melee rotation but Kuroku alluded to its clumsiness at times and I agree...and i dont know about yall but when I do HL melee non-counter or CC effects can take you out of your combo and you go from doing constructs to weapon attacks which is a little frustrating and take some of the luster away from HL melee...hopefully we can collectively agree on sum issues to make 0M dmg more accommodating for all powersets that require it to do the maximum dmg...but the 0 vulnerabilty window thing REALLY bugs me...one time while tanking BN i was actually able to time Black Hand doing this perfectly and we both gained immunity lol...if we as a community can get the devs to look into this it will definitely be a HUGE quality of life change for the lunging melee dpser and like mana from heaven for tanks

I have nothing to prove, least of all to you. I play powers other than Ice based on how efficient they are. If HL is efficient I might give it a try as my troller powerset but I stopped liking HL trolling when WM came, it lost its uniqueness as troll much like now it will end up losing its uniqueness as dps once again.

The content is the problem not the way powers work. Good players always found ways to work around the content. If you can't then you are by definition not a good player. I can't change that nor I want to.
This is about how powers work therefore such discussion is irrelevant. The only thing relevant to this discussion is Rokyn's video. If things are as dramatic as you and others depict them then it would not be possible. Yet somehow it was. Is it an efficient way to dps: Nope, is it a viable one: Yes.

How to make it efficient: increase the cones.

Being incapable of reproducing it is your problem and the penalty for being a bad player is bad dmg. I don't see a problem with that.

I've played without it. Triage's heals are really weak compared to a healer. Light Barrier helps with pickups and as a breakout but with DPS stats it breaks easily. The super is actually quite good if you get crowd controlled. I'll record a video where I don't need them, at all. They are just there to fill up the loadout and give me extra cushion. Initially I was a bit afraid of melee and so I stacked those powers together but playing it more...I'm getting quite used to the mechanics.

I can agree to this statement with increasing the cones. I kinda want to echo what Britteny said in her video, she specifically stated that having more bosses and content that had attacks that were cone-based, will help melee DPS a lot. I think this is true of the mechanics of UM, BN, and BD. Adds are easy to melee in any content as long as their CC attacks are countered such as Black Lanterns and again....a good tank is needed for that.

Some bosses like Grundy, Stompa, Superman, and Hades are tough to melee I will admit. Grundy you can predict a pattern with him and follow suit but his ground punch can one shot anyone with 7m and his scream can be lunged at as long as he doesn't have a blue....good thing his jump can be avoided. Stompa is horrible to melee due to her Skull shoulder charge. Her jump isn't an issue to melee DPS since she does that to every person in range. Superman is impossible to melee since he is proximity aggro as well as Hades is. But that's all I can think of at the top of my head.

You can melee Trigon, Black Hand, Avatar of Sin, Brother Blood (watchout for his red shield), Lyssa Drak, Hank Henshaw, Superboy, and Nekron.

This post brings contradiction to whole another level.

So you pick power sets by how effective they are but you wont spec Light yet.
I guess you are yet to be convinced if it is as effective as what you currently run, otherwise you would have switched.

You say that content is the problem, so would it be easier to change all content instead ?
At least we agree that there is a problem somewhere. From my point of view content will probably stay as it is so only option is to work on powers.

Then at the end you say Light's melee is viable but not effective.
Sure sometimes is viable, other times you die. Any extra damage you can achieve above 35K sustained dps will be nullified by the additional number of deaths, which in the end is not very effective way of dpsing indeed and not a consistent one either.

Not to mention people will get tired picking you up since even 1 living dps is perfectly capable of killing group of 5-6 adds alone. So if you happen to die at adds people may not care to even pick you up but if you happen to die at bosses they will get pissed very fast and start carrying enough to kick you if you are causing chaos.

ive been testing alot of rotations and my powerpoints where i speced seems to give me a taste of all ranges mid and melee... there are so many possible ways to play HL although its a test dummy and most likely i wont get away with endless rotations but there is a way to weave in and out of situations on live.. ive done it many times just perfection in these rotations is crazy! I miss playing HL on live damage isnt there but after this update i will continue to work on loadouts



basically a freestyle ... i did not use GH which i could but its rough throwing that in the mix

Nice video. I think that's exactly why Tunso made it possible to have a complete range and melee rotation in one spec. To weave in and out of combos and adjust to the scenario at the drop of a dime. This gives us an advantage to grab counter immunity and seamlessly transition between Midrange, Range, and Melee and not to mention you can move around with Light Blast and Minigun. And you can hop around with Impact and Ram. Celestial and Rage cannot do this. Atomic with a mixture of melee and range combos....it can.

Even so, you don't even need a complete melee/range spec; you can go with an entire melee spec, grab utility powers, and still have Minigun, Ram, Impact in your arsenal to weave in and out. If you know you can't melee at all and your friends are between 8m-25m, then you can just stick with a complete range spec. Yeah I'm probably am going to have at least 3 armories to fit each of the scenarios. Maybe with time, I'll probably stick to the single melee/range spec even with the loss of utility powers. We'll see.

exactly... the AM is really fun to play... i like to clip my powers as well... and sometimes i go back to WM to see what rotations i can use to maximize damage the video i put up earlier this week seems to be the best way to maximize damage but its too op apparently i hope when the changes are made i can see what rotations are viable in raids and alerts

I would if I could.

Reading that description of it, I still see 2 problems that can happen.1 of the them is a technicality that might work, the other is a slight change to the rotation to account for the AM baseline but I'll see what the numbers look like.

Assumptions?

I play light every day. What power do you play? It was my input in thread on interruptions that helped get Light the window. What have you done?

I have concerns and I am voicing them.

I will wait and see what happens, though I feel it will be inferior when it hits live.

Melee can be fun, but if you go down near a boss, you may not get picked up. It will be harder for a tank to pull adds away from a player that DPS on top of the tank vs one that is at 7m away.

On a side note, do you think a Light player could cause issued for the group if he grants immunity to the boss?

All I can say is if Tunso makes the up in the bosses face melee combo the best damage for HL this will just be another fail. Also, what should be included in the AM is Chompers and Insperation. Unless the interrupt timer also accounts for coming out of the combos to to a quick Chompers into Inspiration clip.

I definitely think so. This could be an issue to a Light player who is giving the boss blues like crazy. So if a danger mechanic happens then the group is screwed.

From what Tunso has said and implied that is exactly what the upcoming test build is NOT going to do. Currently, it is and allows for a "superclipping" rotation that is way out of whack.

Have to see when the new build comes out and we can test the two rotations head to head.

But this is something that happens to Atomic tanks and Atomic combo dps as well. I play with Atomic users and its never an issue. Plus a lunge is using what is needed to prevent a heavy attack.

We can all agree to disagree... I would not wanna see the developers waste time revamping melee distance to cater to 1 or 2 powers from 7m to 3m. HL does "in-line" damage at midrange and ABOVE "inline" damage at range.

Looking at Tunso's original notes...I see nothing about melee damage being addressed. This update ISN'T a HL overhaul. You guys want increased HL melee damage with "incoming" damage mitigation ..allowing you to melee content with little risk......

Thus ultimately completely breaking HL in pvp...as if it hasn't been absurd in pvp as is for over a year. You guys got your "beneficial" upgrades and definitely a superior upgrade at range which hasn't really been addressed. Pick your battles wisely. Just my $0.02

This has nothing to do with pvp. The am is completely disabled in pvp.