So, I'd like to discuss this data...rationally, please

This graph was posted by Spytle in another thread, which was locked due to going off-topic. I thought it appropriate to create a specific, on-topic thread to discuss it. I understand that the Dev team have the resources to pull much more aggregate information about the entire DCUO population tendencies, which is a great tool. That said, I think a graph like this out of context is difficult to interpret. I'm not saying it's made up. I believe the numbers are real, but I think we need to know a little more about how they were generated, because they do not fit well with the in-game experiences many of us have.

Here are the questions I have:

1. The title is "Highest DPS per Day." Does that mean it's a representation of the highest DPS output by a single player on any server for a particular day? It seems too high to be an average across the player population.

2. How is AM versus WM being determined? Personally, I use a hybrid as Celestial, as my data parsing has shown WM combos (not with the might crit) to be superior in DPS to the standard RcW AM spam. However, I also make use of PcDL and DLcP. Thus, I'm technically utilizing the AM with only dry WM combos (no crit). Does that mean I'm classified as AM? What if I tacked Smite onto my WM combo? Then, I would be using both. I think it's difficult to determine in some cases, as most powersets can use WM and the AM to varying degrees, and they even may switch in content using Armories.

3. What content do these numbers reflect? Are these raids? Alerts? Does that even matter?

I'd like this to be a rational, productive discussion about the data, as this is apparently what is being used to determine balance in the game. I feel that having a better understanding of data from both sides may help tune that overall balance.

-Rem

The data is sampled on T6 bosses, including Survival Mode.

The data sampled is from all servers over the whole community. The log then shows us the top 10 players for each category. This chart shows the number one player only - Top DPS for that day in that category - who had the highest DPS output on the bosses we are logging. Obviously we have weeks of data and this is a single example, but the result reflects the ongoing trend.

Currently, we are making refinements to the data. The data here reflects an entire play session, which could tweak the results slightly. We want to get more granular with how we analyze the results and do the comparison. As always, balance is an ongoing process in a live game.

I'm all for numbers and whatnot, so I'm actually looking forward to this discussion.

I personally use Weapon Mastery along with the Power Mechanics with whatever toon I'm using (refer to my sig, if you want), which I feel is necessary to adapt with whatever situation the content presents me. I guess people can take that into consideration while I'm throwing my 2 cents in.

I await for a more granular set of numbers.

Thank you so much for sharing that. I really appreciate the transparency in the process. The DCUO Dev team is, by far, the best I've experienced in that regard. Your clarification does explain some of the disconnect, I think. Looking at the top DPS in each category (again, difficult to fully assess which category with so much hybrid play), from an entire player population during boss fights, which likely have multiple DPSers involved, is difficult to interpret. When we parse our own rotation data from multiple full runs, trash mobs and all, and compare it, it's pretty apparent that there are discrepancies that don't necessarily match up to the data in that graph. I'm glad to hear you're looking at how the data is being analyzed. I know it's tough to do with such a large aggregate database.

What is being considered Rage WM only rotations? Cause in that thread wasnt it mentioned that the graph considers what Rage DPS using these days is Rage AM?

You didn't answer number 2 which is the most important question of the three. Also when answering that please do describe what the AM in your guys eyes is for HL and Celestial because in mine and many other players of those power sets it means chaining combos without doing ANY WM combos, not just crit window but also going into the extended combo.

Thank you.

I wonder if you guys could do something similar but with support roles. Hell, I'd be happy if it was still dps, but just those in support role.

Did you coin the term "dry WM combos"?

Regardless I like it and I suspect this is a contributor to the disconnect by a number in the community. Personally I've always leaned heavy on weapons, even before WM, partially for power regen and partially because it fits my game play style but I get the feeling when people are trying to measure output they tend to lean to towards the polar opposites.

With that in mind I think when people are trying to capture their metrics they ought to look at more than just 2 exclusive approaches to combat to get a more representative sampling.

Despite being a fan of data and graphics and comparissons...

... I think this graphic, as it is, just cause some confusion. It is not described properly how the data was acquired.

But I would love to see the raw data!

Talking about Celestial, as Remander put, the best DPS output comes from a mix of COMBOS and WM.

A pure AM or a pure WM in celestial means what?

Trash mobs will skew the data.

I would so be the top player in Electric WM category.

Single target dpses parses, which we use when coming up with our numbers, don't have that issue....the big issue we run into with our method is power consumption is neither limiting or taken into consideration. Though I'd still like an explination as to how you differentiate WM and AM and what is categorized in each. That is the biggest thing that is causing confusion both between your data to us and our experience to you.

Are these players using AM exclusively or are they also using weapon mastery?

Ewww... excel...

Please remove color from the chart. Remove all gradiants. Remove the trailing zeroes from the Y axis and label the axis as representing thousands. Consider using R or SPSS for this kind of analysis, it will allow you to play around much more and directly get a live connection to your backend data.

/smartarse mode off, soz tis part of my job

Here is the "real balance".. to keep things fair, why giving so much love to DPS?.. support roles needs love too.

Curious, why wasn't fire on that chart?



Are the AM crowd using weapon mastery too? If so how can you tell if AM is better than WM?

If you recall my initial posting of the graph in the other thread, we are taking power consumption into consideration already.

Again, in the thread this originally came up in, I explained fire was not on the list as the new changes had not yet hit live.

Damage out or DPS (Damage Per Second)? Those numbers are pretty high for being DPS. If it is Damage out how can that be useful data if it is so dependent on the number of DPSs in the raid, if someone died, how geared the player is, or how many SPs he has.... I'm confused.

I thought all that stuff was measured by a value like DPS/Stats or so (very simplified).