So, I'd like to discuss this data...rationally, please

Here's Tunso's answer through Spytle (shortened, full post is on page 2):

"To contribute to the HL WM portion of this chart, you have to do a WM combo and not do any light combos at all - no AM.

To contribute to the HL AM portion of this chart, you have to do the AMs which trigger the Light PIs, otherwise it assumes you are not doing the AM. Use of WM leading into that is not excluded from the log. I am told it does not distinguish, at which point I asked if it could."

Note that Fire is not on the graph. From extensive testing by me, I can assure you that Fire's WM is much stronger than Fire's AM. Using WM, I can keep up with most any similar geared power, except nature. This nature guy uses the AM and is less geared than I, yet he destroys me.

Using fire's AM, I can't keep up with any of them. I'm not too far behind, but I can switch to WM and catch up quickly.

I don't think any cele hl or rage player is just using combos, they are starting of using WM like a sorcery player who is using fury, earth using crystal, nature using dots, and electricity using dots are. I see a WM weapon combo just as a weapon combo, not WM. Hope that clarify it for you

Actually, regarding points B & C, Spytle has even admitted their number parsing isn't perfect. For instance, the AM data also include hybrid approaches, rather than pure AM. Furthermore, the whole push with these changes has been to balance. If we aren't doing that, what's the point? I do agree with your point A, though. D isn't really a point.

It does thanks.

It does thanks.

Spytle said this data was from before Fire's AM launched.

[quotei"lordexecution365, post: 2774508, member: 2538"]It does thanks.[/quote]
Guess we in the same boat if you think any rage hl oe cele players just spam combos w\o weapons

Can we get a kudos thread for these players? It would be nice for these player to be recognized since you have the numbers and they have mastered their particular powerset and obviously are representing the powerset. Maybe this is something that can be done monthly and is a constructive way to keep PvE competitive by letting others chase these players.

I really applaud you for even engaging the community on this topic. Rage is the only power IMO that really needs some toning down, and it all really boils down to dreadful blast being an AOE ranged attack and being a 45% modifier.

Most of the complaining is coming from the HL and Celestial players, as of now, they don't have a ranged AOE power that can utilize the WM. bonus.

I use the Nature AM and it is a beast...you spread the spores and you get quite a bit in damage out...Nature AM is fantastic the way it is...I only get beat by Rage in instance and I'm mostly 90 gear...

If you want to discuss power that are broke, let's look at the sole power that is below the 5 million mark for both WM and AM...HL...those that are clamoring for a HL fix now have proof in their hands stating the power has been nerf to the point where it is no longer a vialbe DPS power using the AM or even WM....the developers have proof in their hands right now.... no reason for them to make any excuses about fixing it as well...

You guys may not have liked his approach (I agree it was a little forward) but he has gotten more dev response and gotten major questions answered in terms of balance and how it is perceived by the players and the dev team. If anything you guys should be thanking him. This is some of the best dev response I have seen in months and I appreciate both sides of the argument and can see where the dev team and players are coming from.

B,C, and E - the numbers have been proven to be severely flawed like we have been claiming. Your reasonable proof ended up being the proof we needed that our complaints are justified. Hopefully the dev's will be able to get real data from the numbers but at this point the numbers have no real meaning except to compare powers to each other.

I believe that is a typo on their part...the rest list AM than WM....they just need to fix the typo....

Or it is a result of the WM being the terror PI that Nature players are using vs. the DOT AM....

Really looking forward to this...I have been for some time now

Time to go Rage! XD
My characters are all built with specific powers and backstories in mind so I guess my HL and Mental will still be my top chars but may be it's time for my Rage villain to shine!

Thanks for the chart devs.

Possibly. Hopefully, we'll get confirmation.

Maybe its because of the lack of fire dps players? I dunno for sure, but the power isn't favored by the community...

I don't know people should be thanking them for anything. Being accusatory towards another is still a bad way to go about things, no matter what comes of it.

It still surprises me that some of us want to limit ourselves to strictly Power Mechanics or strictly Weapon Mastery rotations anyway, but don't get me wrong: I enjoy the discussion nevertheless.

Remander said: "Spytle said this data was from before Fire's AM launched. "