Work In Progress: What's Next for Arena PvP

HT mods adds complexity to the one fighting againts the user of those mods. HT doesnt remove skill it only removes 2 invulnerabilitys and ur making it sound like it removes every counter/invulnerability on the game witch is not true. Be creative is really simple to counter those mods.

My issue still hasn't been addressed. The Risk v Reward.

It takes no skill to execute hometurf improved abilities but, takes tremendous skill to negate them. This is imbalanced.

Furthermore, the ability to go back and make an entirely new set of mods for PvP seems unlikely since the DLC is so old, and they need to focus their resources on other content. This in turn leads me to believe hometurf should be taken out completely.

@Starry Hope,
I have been playing the game since beta. I know how PVP was before movement mode debuffs and how it was after movement mode debuffs. PVP arenas was perfectly fine until the Last Laugh and Hometurf DLC came into the picture. Granted PVP arenas was not the best when it first came out, right now PVP arenas is unplayable. Originally PVP arenas had role debuffs and the counter mechanics. Even before the PVP releated DLC was introduced, updates to PVP like immunity and other stuff was no liked by the majority of players. There was a TON of players participating in PVP before all of this garbage was added. The Developers are making PVP way to complicated with all of these consumables, DLC content, and debuffs. What has been added are game mechanics that break PVP arenas and cause too much of a gap between players. In reality all we need is one form of debuff and consumables that do not debuff or buff players. I hate to call you this, you are delusional if you think PVP arenas is playable right now.

It is unplayable. Not for the reasons you have stated imo.

What makes PvP unplayable is the crit fests with WM and the powers with "awesome" level mechanics. The counter windows are flawed and the counters themselves are not consistent. Debuffs take a few tries before they stick meaning power is wasted when the debuff should work the first time...

True and another thing is that ps3 players are having extreme issues with every player phasing in and out constantly on pvp arenas and legends making the game glitchy and for some maps like HQ to get the Battery freeze in mid air. This kind of problems should be fix/adressed before any new change kicks in on pvp or pve because it actually affects both sides.

There is too many too miss-dodging/waffling of the topic debate of what's going on justify any logical debate how to better improve PvP.

Clearly a vast majority has disrupted the principle of the subject.
Clearly there is a competitive dispute between HT Mods and those without.

Please compromise what is on Competitive Terms and what is Casual.
Those that compete should gain a small advantage in rewards, and that's asked mentally and competitively.

Casual should be allowed what's given, HT Mods given advantage to knowledge of the Map.
Competitiveness is given Pubic View and Discipline to allow the Rewarded Givings.

Clearly there is a Public and Competitive Dispute going on and this debate has gone off subject.

This kinda nails it. As is I dont random q much mainly due to ht, pets and movement debuffs. Ideally id like it all gone. Maybe disabling In scrims could be a compromise but then qs as they are atm (in a competitive players eyes) are a free for all with any old bs being used. Going down this route id still be looking at pvp specific mods some are just too ridiculous to stay. E.c tm deadly/Explosive block

So does that apply to open world PvP or just the arenas?(I'd still like the option of calling in my henchmen or sidekick in open world PvP since there is no guarantee or expectation of a "fair fight" there.(Ganging up and using superior numbers to win should be viable in open world combat in my opinion.) So yeah I'd still like the use of trinkets and such at least in open world PvP.

@Nay Sayers against HT

It takes plenty of skill to execute HT trinkets and mods properly, and to counter them all as well. Just because some people may or may not be having trouble properly executing a counter measure against an opponent utilizing the very mechanics that rewrote how our combat system functions (that is called evolution), does not mean HT makes it so people are invulnerable or uncounterable. That is a very silly notion that has been proven wrong MANY times in this very thread by me and others.

It's not that I do not have time to make a video, it is that I have better things to do with my time, as I said before. Please start reading these posts. Like I said in other threads, I am not here to help people who do not fully comprehend the game, especially those who aren't in my league. I and many others in this thread have no issues fighting people who utilize HT trinkets or mods such as empowered channeling, tumbling master, etc against us. Just because it may or may not be a problem for a few others, does not mean it should be removed because a few people are having trouble. It means the party having trouble battling HT needs to better brush up on this games combat system, and take some time to read the many counter measures that exist in this thread for said HT items. If you read this thread, you'd know how many counters exist for these mods.

Evolution is part of an MMO, HT evolved our games combat system. It did not remove counters, it simply changed what counters what mechanics, and added a level of skill to the equation that involves very precise timing. I understand some are currently having trouble utilizing all of the different counter measures available to us, however removing such an important evolutionary part of our game is not the answer. Games evolve not devolve. Some people like their PvP complex (with HT) and others like their PvP extremely simple (No HT), and that is understandable. Different strokes for different folks. The devs can easily do one of two things to appease both sides.

The solutions are as follows, A) make it so that deathmatch arenas have NO HT allowed, and fully allow HT in all objective based games. Or B) create two different playlists within the Arena tab that share the same exact same map rotation, one with and without HT. The best part about option B is that they don't have to leave it in permanently. It can be a temporary thing for a few weeks or months and then the devs themselves can see what is more popular for the entire community. Either way whatever the devs decide I am behind it 100%. Great players will still be great players regardless of the changes that take place.

P.S.

To anyone claiming Deadly or Explosive block is a problem I have to ask, how do those mods proc? By a player (the player on offense) hitting a player blocking (the player on defense) with 3 taps or 1 hold combo. If we get the brunt of those blocking mods, it is because we are the reason it was set off. People need to stop blaming game mechanics when they aren't paying attention. This is simply just another reason why HT belongs in PvP, it forces people to pay attention, and punishes those who aren't paying attention. Hence why it adds complexity to PvP.

Actually Phil, it takes a lot of skill to execute them. For example, if someone mistimes their supply drop against me, I could kill them before the drop even reaches them, and then they wasted their supply drop and cannot use it for the next 5 minutes. Another example, if sit there and spam my finisher using EC, not only am I wasting my own power for no reason, I am making it easier for my opponents to run me out of power with stuns and potentially remove my ability to breakout of an opponents CC's.

The skill in executing HT trinkets and mods, is ensuring you are using them at the proper time to either ensure a kill, or prevent a death. They all have counters measures though. For example, a properly timed stun with stop a tumbler in their tracks. If you are fighting someone using EC, you know that if your health falls below 35%, the chances of getting hit by a finisher are almost 100% certain. Therefore, either A) use a shield to mitigate the damage from the finisher, B) time a stun to interrupt the finisher as it is immune to interrupt, not CC, or C) pop a soda and get that HP back over 35%.

Lets also not forget we all have access to the same mods and trinkets, no one at this point of the game should be without HT trinkets and Mods. So since these are not luck based items or drops, it is just as easy for you to "execute" as it is for your opponent, so the skill regardless comes down to who the better player is in terms of defending against these mods. Is that not the very definition of skill, and a perfect example who "the better player is, will win"? I mean if one player can easily counter these mods, does that not make them more skilled?

That's why HT should stay, it adds complexity and depth to PvP, and forces us to utilize all aspects of the combat system for counter measures, and not just the plain jane vanilla trinity for counters. Those who know and utilize all aspects of the combat system better will always come out on top.

P.S.

Don't even try to say it's hard to get HT trinkets and mods. One Nexus per month gives 16k MoT. That unlocks 4 level IV items in your mainframe per month. Seeing as how Henchmen and Accomplice share a cool down, you pick one or the other anyway.

I never said they don't take skill or remove skill, I said they're imbalanced. If something significantly difficult to use is trumped by something significantly easy to use, then there's a balance issue.

That's my issue.

That is just it though, we all have the same tools to use and choose from. Therefore, in your example, we all have the same "easy to use" tools. The main difference is how skilled the player is when combating them. That is what sets players apart. These HT items didn't remove vulnerabilities, or make certain moves uncounterable. What HT did was rewrite how certain moves are handled when countering them if they are coupled with certain mods. There is still a way to stop and beat someone using any of the HT trinkets or tactical mods, it just takes a lot more skill to do.The methods are listed all over this thread.

So the fact that you feel these mods are "easy to use" is irrelevant, because they are then easy for everyone to use by your example. What sets players apart is if you know how to fight against someone using HT trinkets and mods. The reason I say this, is EC doesn't impact me negatively, I know how to properly counter someone using that mod, and the same goes from tumbling master.

I personally like the complexity and depth HT adds to PvP. I like that HT keeps me on my toes and never knowing what to expect from my opponent next in the form of both abilities and trinkets. HT is not easy to use, or easy to counter, otherwise this thread would not exist. HT forces people to get better in PvP. Elements that get added to the game to add depth, complexity and strategy to BOTH PvE and PvP should not be removed because a few people choose not to adapt and evolve with the rest of the game.

You are entitled to your opinion, but you have done nothing to back your opinion. I have provided examples about how it requires to skill to both use and circumvent HT trinkets and mods in previous posts. Just because a few people may or may not be struggling using and combating HT trinkets and mods, does not mean everyone is having the same problem.

Skill point overhaul? Where did you hear about this and where?

Ill start by saying take your own advice and read others postsi answered quite clearly a few pages back the cheese in these mods.. I can explain whats wrong with these block mods in 2 words. Crowd blocking. 1v1 2v2 no problem. 4s upwards I can target 1 guy , launch a big hit at him successfully and be countered and hit for 3k by splash damage from a turtling team mate or alternatively lauched across the arena. Even though I hit my target . Before you can say single target try naming a few viable combos outside of flip slash pulse beam on 1h . D.w particularly was always a bad weapon choice against adept crowd/screen blockers

Edit: before you say it I dont find them difficult to deal with but we are talking about balance and issues in pvp and atm I find them to be dumbing down of actual combat . 3k from blocking? Come on man that's not right and promotes turtling

Actually u did right here.

Nowadays its who is the best pokemon master in pvp. Some people I see in pvp matches looking like Ash Ketchum.

Maybe on capture and hold matches but not in deathmatches anymore because that was addressed.

This all sounds great but please I love DCUO so do not reset pvp as like a season, just 1 set of gear for everyone so newcomers actually DO have a chance and I'm tired of grinding for something so tedious , at least you can do stuff in old pve gear.

so every tier right now just reverts to this one set of gear that changes stats depending on role too? so just press T and you get the healer stats, press to to go back, if there are no more mods that is.

This revamp sounds pretty awesome. Please increase the number of marks of valor earned though, so it's less grindy to those of us that are only playing arenas to get better gear for duels and open-world pvp.

Also, more open world PVP events would be nice. The existing events are barely even PVP, they are just fetch quests with some PVP potential. No one does them because they aren't fun.