Work In Progress: What's Next for Arena PvP

Don't make assumptions about what I know.

I know that any movement mode can use it, but again a roll does not last forever. There is also about half a second pause before you roll again after completing a roll. So what if you can't interrupt their roll with a lunge? That does not mean there isn't another way to interrupt it. What is stopping you from stunning or ccing them when they are done with a roll? You do realize a roll is only about 1-2 seconds, that's not enough to change the tide of a fight.

I can tell you right now, if you are losing to anyone utilizing this mod, you only have yourself to blame. If your timing is good, and your combat know how is decent, there is no reason why any of these mods should be giving you trouble. Let me reiterate again, if these mods are besting you, you only have yourself to blame for not properly adjusting your strategies to overcome these obstacles on the fly. Stop blaming these mods and strategies for any potential short comings people might have in PvP, it's unbecoming.

That's what we have been doing in this thread. Most of us all agree with all the changes, except for whether HT should stay or be removed. Have you not been reading this thread?

I believe everything about this update is perfect, and that they SHOULD leave all HT mods and trinkets in PvP because these items are not luck based drops, or something that can not be obtained by everyone.

I believe that HT items add depth and strategy to PvP, and add a whole other level of skill that helps keep PvP fun and innovate. HT allows us to be diverse while also ensuring the player with the best timing, combat know how, and strategies wins.

I believe devolving PvP because a few players may or may not be having trouble adapting to the diverse strategies that these mods bring is most definitely not the answer. The answer is to force said players to adapt with those of us who already have.

This is very much on topic, it's actually exactly what Tunso asked us to talk about, if you read this thread from the start, that is.

@Fallou

As I explained to Thrump and the devs explained to us previously...

If you want to your character to be as strong as possible you MUST participate in both PvE AND PvP. People should not be rewarded for half playing this game. People should be rewarded for playing the entire game, like they do now.

As far as this particular thread we are in goes, if we had nothing to earn, the game would grow boring and stale quickly. Which is yet another reason why I also feel that HT upgrades should be available for purchase with PvP marks as well as PvE marks, and that no feat should be left solely to luck.

Other than that, we should be forced to put in the time to earn our feats and skill points, our upgrades like HT, learn combat mechanics like how to overcome certain tactical mods in certain situations, and learn proper timing to ensure all of these tools serve us well when we decide to utilize them. Forming strategies that utilize all of these wonderful aspects of our game is what keeps our game fun and innovative.

I never said I'm losing to people using said mod, I was simply showing you what others were telling you on how it completely nullifies a combat mechanic. I have no issue with it, but you keep replying on a non-existent tumbling mastery issue (about how it doesn't go around the countering system and doesn't ignore a combat mechanic) when in actuality it does (Rolling is a part of the combat mechanics). Pot calling the kettle black, don't assume I have issues with it when I'm just pointing out facts.

Yea I agree time and effort should be put in. You can put as much time and effort purely PvP as you can PvE. I never said to just hand SP out or give them with minimal effort. I just feel more SP should be awarded for PvP things than there currently is. I could honestly care less about PvE most of the time and I know for a fact many others feel the same. Not that I dont like PvE but majority of my time is not spent doing it. For every 2 hours spent in PvE alerts/Walk ins, I spend at least 8 in PvP as a rough example.

Why pretend as if what most are speaking of are sometype of unwritten rules. No matter what power you are you can go read the powers that are vulnerable to block or vulnerable to interrupt. You can see icons pop up if you roll or block or attempt bbing or use a power with certain vulnerabilities. The devs created these combat mechanic rules then contradicted the very rules which they created to give the game balance. I can understand its use in pve but in pvp it creates a false sense of a skill lvl by negating the rules that makes it challenging beyond just hand to hand combat. Which in fact destorys the integrity of the combat mechanics all in it self I mean might as well add in t6 tact mods making us invulnerable to block while they're at it. Those who support ht mods will say no but why not if you want it dumbed might as well go all out and just make it a slug fest just swing away spam powers no worries. No tact mods gives under geared and experienced ppl the chance to out smart their opponents and not just be completely over powered. All these mods do is reduce the amount of counters and make the ones still available op I.e. deadly block.

HT mods ignore combat mechanics so they should be removed, but I know alot of people like those mods , Iincluding my self so it would be ok, but. Sum of them will still have to go, ( tumble master, deadly block) but the home turf trinkets should leave altogether especially since they want to bring back the " good ol days" of pvp. And those mods do not give u a more diverse way of playing it gives u an advantage , hence the photon spamming with empowered channeling no risk just reward.

nm

I've read the beginning and since I came on the forums more recently. I don't come here unless there is a problem or unless I hear of an update I want to read. Personally I love the mods. Remove the ht trinkets. However, if it came to it, I wouldn't be opposed to them removing the mods as well. If you read what I wrote to Tunso, it stated that as well as I believe the temporary buff trinkets should stay. As my post also said - I could kiss the devs for this news. This sounds wonderful. Removing HT sounds the best. I would miss the mods greatly if they left but I wouldn't be opposed to it.

I think that the only one that is annoying as hell is the acro rolling mod but you can still kill people using it even if it takes longer. To be honest, what would be nice is if they made it blockable.

And in terms of adding depth, I'm not quite sure I agree. As for the weapon mod - it's all luck since it's a chance of it. The blocking mods do take more skill to know when someone is coming but more often than not what I see is people "turtling" in an attempt to get just one counter. I personal just bb those people but not everyone does.

Oh and not everything the mods bring in a great idea. A lot of times it needs to be changed or removed, not adapted to. I think they're now realizing that this had no place in PvP.

And well fyi, this has become more of an argument of how the mods affect pvp... not necessarily whether they should be kept or not. It's like both sides refuse to see any reason in the other side's and just keep saying their own things over and over again. Also, I don't like the "if you read from the beginning" thing you keep saying. It sounds like those condescending comments people make to try to make others seem like a fool. =/

That's because it doesn't go around the counter system, there is a way to counter it via a stun. Therefore it does not avoid combat mechanics as a stun is in fact a combat mechanic. Again, these mods alter the combat mechanics, and force to to think beyond the vanilla state of this game. That is what I am explaining to all of you. It just seems some cannot think passed the vanilla mindset.

I never said you had issues with anything, I specifically said you "may or may not". I also said "if" you or others had trouble with a particular mod, it was your own fault. So I never made any assumptions about you in particular. I think you are reading to hard into my statement.

https://www.google.com/#q=define if

With "match NPCs" that use the counter system, that'd be a pretty big nerf to the PVE side of using that mod. It being blockable that is. It was discussed before, personally the main use for the mod I would employ is just spamming it to get out of an area. Catch myself in bad positioning and stuck pinned in there pretty good, just spam tumbling till you knock everything out fo the way and flip through.

Just another reason why I want the current ones left for PVE, and give us new ones for PVP only if mods are that wanted, I know I wouldn't mind well designed mods that actually power up the use of abilities rather than remove their risks.

"Stop blaming these mods and strategies for any potential short comings people might have in PvP, it's unbecoming. "

Despite you throwing indrect hypothetical situations around, this line is you directly making an assumption of me blaming a mod I have no issue with. It used to be countered via lunge, but with this mod it no longer is interruptible. The notion that a stun is a part of the countering system falls short of you can break-out of a stun you can't really get back up off your *** from getting lunged while rolling. While, it may be a combat mechanic, it does not involve the countering system whatsoever. What used to be counterable via counter system, is no longer counterable thanks to a tactical mod.

@Skinkamalei

You are entitled to your opinions, just as the rest of us are. I do just want to point out that whatever you feel the devs think is pure speculation, and is irrelevant in this discussion.

IF you have really been following this thread like you say you have, then you would know that I already said if these mods were removed, I would be fine with it. I have been here since beta, and seen every change that has taken place. I'm all for whatever the devs decide.

That said, I would prefer HT not be removed as I personally feel they add depth, strategy, skill, customization, etc to our characters and to PvP and strategies used in PvP. To be more specific, I believe that no part of HT should be removed from PvP, mods or trinkets.

I honestly feel the best solution here is to separate No HT and Full HT. The best way to do this is to make death matches No HT, since most of HT is already not allowed there. Then for objective based games, continue to allow HT entirely as they are completely allowed now. This way, both parties have a place they can go enjoy PvP the way they want to. This way both parties win.

I also strongly feel that HT upgrades should be available via PvP marks as well as PvE marks. This way there is no reason for anyone to be without them. This is what I feel the best solution would be, so all players are happy, but please make no mistake, I am pro HT mods and trinkets all the way. I like what they bring to the table for PvP, I like that all aspects of HT keep me on my toes in a match, and that is why I feel they most certainly belong in PvP. In the end though, whatever happens, happens.

P.S.

It was not my intention to make you feel insulted or offended. My apologies if I made you feel that way by accident.

If they can't form a reasonable argument, attack the person's credibility instead!

There's some latin name for that which I never remember, but yeah... it doesn't make for a very good argument once it's pointed out.

How wrong you are. I don't PvE much and haven't in comparison since early to mid 2012... basically enough to get feats and pay rent on HT along with getting gear for styles/feats. Many many pages back I suggested the option of paying HT rent with PvP marks... didn't give an amount, but about 80-100 MoV should cut it for boost 2... 15-20 for boost 1. Given that you can get enough marks to pay for Boost 2 in one T4 raid that takes 20-40 minutes it seems like a decent trade off. I'm sure I've run into a couple people who use tumbling master and despite not having spec'd into my channeling power for quite some time probably still have the empowered channeling mod on my hands, as a healer I have never had a purpose for deadly block, can't recall ever being taken out by it because I block break, and even though I don't block much in the vast majority of matches I do use explosive block.

As for the buffs in matches, I random queue about half of the time... those buffs can mean the difference of topping the board only to lose because the rest of the group has no clue what they're doing and topping the board and winning despite the rest of the group having no clue what they're doing. Again, like HT, they're available to everyone who chooses to utilize them. Might as well take them out for the "No PvE/trinks/colas/pets/sp/etc" mode too. Like I said, I'd more than happily add that to my queue, but making it the only option would do more damage to PvP than the map lock and uneven match ups did.

Exactly, that again goes to show this game has evolved passed its vanilla state of rules. The game now forces you to think and act quickly. Not everything is black and white anymore. I also want to point out again, people cannot roll continuously without a 1 second pause before rolling again. So even if they aren't acrobats, there is still a window of time that they are vulnerable.

So this notion of about people utilizing this mod and them not being vulnerable to a counter, is incorrect, the window is just much smaller than what people may be used to and they must utilize another method do interrupting the next roll. That is where skill and timing comes into play. That method is a stun with proper timing, something we ALL have.

Either way, as I stated, the system has evolved passed its black and white vanilla state, and it's something you as well as the others are just going to have to accept IF these mods remain in PvP. As I said before as well! whatever happens, happens. It's really up to the devs, they are the ones with the final say.

I was only asking you to make a thread on here so you could defend your opinion better. Really though, there isn't a way to counter them like there is to counter block, a roll, weapon damage, or a blockbreak.

I suppose you could drop a supply drop yourself after your opponent drops a supply drop... But that's really not countering like blockbreaking someone who is blocking is. It's more like stooping to their level.(If you think HT trinkets are for noobs of course. )

If your about parties winning then you should agree with this. Im hl and I feel if gadget users and other might base powers can freely spam their 35% plus other strong powers without vulnerability. I want to be invulnerable to block so I can spam my combos with out any worries as well. Now if you cant agree and support that then discussion over get on the remove tact mods bandwagon. If you wanna break combat rules then they all should be able to be broken in the name of fairness. Lets dumb down pvp to a complete slugfest it would add more depth and strategy let ppl worry about overcoming ram whip thrash spams.

Let's put in a counter system for hometurf mods and trinkets! That'll add some skill!