Increase Fire's Self Heals

DONT icrease it. considering most powers dont even HAVE self heals besides healers. just leave it

Just ran nexus with a sloppy run, we had 4 alts with us. 3 or 4 wipes total as you can figure out from the death count. General, Professor and Space last boss with trident artifact. I'm not sure if the circles were buff or damage as I try to stay out of them to be safe.





I took 1,506,279 healing in. Subtract my own healing out of 254,159 and i'm left with 1,252,120 healing from healers or outside sources. Divide by 1.8 to factor out the 80% healing bonus and I ended up taking 698,622 dmg after tank bonuses. Keep in mind we wiped a few times so the damage numbers are inflated, but i'm getting closer to my goal.

For those that will refute this think about it. Ice would have absorbed that extra damage I took through shields and those numbers would not have shown up on the scorecard. In this case I can easily remove the 80% healing in and my self heals to reveal what "could" have been absorbed through shields. Obviously there is a slight discrepancy as I took in 80k more damage than healing in. I have no idea where the discrepancy is but it's not so huge a difference that i'm worried about it. Tack that random 80k damage onto my raw dmg number and i'm around 780k raw dmg in after fires bonuses. Not bad considering the wipes.

Edit: I don't use HLS either. This is 100% fire power loadout with no supercharge to inflate my own healing out. I did spec full resto as a test but i'm going to respec and remod to full dom because these numbers prove to me that self healing isnt worth the effort. Might be better to boost health to survive longer.

I think the heals at least for me are ok but the location in the power trees and the power consume are not, also reignition heals are too weak it only heal me for 1600 with some luck while hibernation heals for around 1200 but ice doesnt have a 80% heal buff, maybe around 2500 heal with reignition would be better.

Also i still dont know why ice elemental is 50% supercharge cost while eternal flame is still 100%... isnt it better to make a downgrade version of it but 50% sc cost? also you have to get hits for the heals so in pvp just ignore the eternal flame user or run away.

I'm not a fan of super charges as a tank. In pvp they can be useful but I'd rather use speed drain or wop for more power.

Hibernation and ice elemental are pretty useless. Hibernation drops all aggro and you can't do anything while encased. Transformation lag on ice elemental is horrific on ps3. I tried it once in t5 and was stuck for 5-10 sec transforming out of it with no defense buff and couldn't pop shields.

Also, reignition is 25% vs. Hibernations 35%. I think the heals are roughly even considering that and the fact that your group is on their own when you're in hibernation.

Well i use ice elemental and it doesnt have transformation lag for me but probably because i play on pc, dunno about PS3 problems.

Ice elemental is the only supercharge i use and at least in my opinion is the only one worth, 25k health and nearly 15k toughness plus a initial heal for 700-800 and some small ticks of 70 and is probably like a 40% supercharge because you can hit and regen sc while in this form.

look the self heals themselves are not going to save you but not using them is even worse.

my nexus rotation consists of backdraft + one other healing power 9 times out 10 when I come out of block

so backdraft lets call it 800 on average +
we will average stoke to be 2k
burning det to be 1.5k
burnout to be 1k

so everytime i come out of block i am healing myself for either
2.8k - 2.3k - 1.8k

these are just averages without really factoring big crits.

I would rather heal myself for a 2k average everytime I come out of block than either 800 or even 0

to really be what people are wanting you would need closer to a 3k average with backdraft and stoke or backdraft and burning

really reflect is the only power ice has that is out of balance with these numbers, but try tanking with ice without reflect. I can do it all the way to the last boss room but i really doubt anyone can do the last boss without using reflect. If someone can tank nexus as ice without reflect then you are indeed an A+ level player and everyone in your group is as well.

Yea ps3 is a whole different world. One of the biggest reasons for the ice armor change was ps3 lag. We would sit there doing nothing for quite a while both going into and out of ice armor. Ice elemental is fun to play with though.

That sounds like a challenge id like to try. With 2 healers its definitely possible to beat nex without reflect. Just avoid circles/bunkers/etc just like with fire.

You guys also need to stop equating self heals to shields. If they were equal then ice would get +80% healing in too. The massive HP is like having reflect up all the time. At any given moment I can take 16k dmg, I don't need to activate a power to do that. The drawback to extra heals and massive health? Lower defense.

Tanking Nexus is a Yawn now.... to be honest ... w/o reflect i would disagree ice wouldn't be as durable this is true but the other shields scale like the rest of the game... 100%dom+100%resto... and they would still have the defense that they have just rotating other shield ....Yet this isn't the argument rather ... i'm trying(hoping rather) to help make Fire more self sufficient. Unless i go SS phase dodge then fire is pretty good... which i've actually thought about doing because it will make Dox a lot easier i mean almost nexus EZ .... a walking blocking tank the thought of it just makes me want to but if i wanted easier tanking y not go ice first... The extra heals will allow for fire to be more mobile honestly i like fire tanking, more than healing trolling or dpsing and i actually excell at all them but i still see some of the stuff ice gets away with and i've nvr been ice but from what i've seen and read ... they get away with a lot of fire "1shots" or heavy dmg dealing moves w/ minimal dmg because they have shield ontop of dmg mitigation (from defense) w/o blocking ..... no will argue that fire is durable while blocking but w/o blocking we're susceptible to hits of 10k plus often from certain bosses and if i could only heal myself for 2k at at a time this will put me all the way at the mercy of the healers to pick up on my mistake or i die cuz we know how useless soders are for fire tanks XD

fire only gets the 80% healing increase because of its high health ...and the amount of dmg it takes .. by design this is a healer-friendly power... ice can completely ignore dmg and ice has has about half fire's health but nearly double fire defense w/o blocking they're nearly the same except when ice pops a shield and have you seen the cooldowns on fire's heals compared to the shields of ICE... honestly the ravenger can hit me for 10k w/o blocking thats about 2/3s of my health bar... ice can pop a shiled to ignore incoming dmg until he recieves a heal... fire will to hope to get heal or get out of the way and run for a while ....or what ever to try to get health back but if only u knew how long it took to heal yourself for 10k ... larger heal = equal


More Self-Sufficiency is all im asking for

Its not because of the high health. If defense was equal both fire and ice would take the exact same damage. Doesn't matter if you have 50k health or 2k, if you take 1k DMG its still 1k DMG. Fire has the bonus healing to overcome the low defense and the high DMG taken when they get knocked down.

Your example with the ravager. The ice tank inflates his HP with the shield, that's DMG the healer doesn't have to heal. Fire takes the full hit and the healer heals for 80% more. That 80% bonus is DMG the healer doesn't have to heal directly. its free heals tacked onto the same heal he gave the ice tank to help negate the extra DMG taken.

I agree some more self sufficiency would be nice to have. But that would come at the cost of removing some or all of the bonus healing in.

Edit: I don't know if you know but I'm fire now. I'm seeing this first hand. Self heals are nothing compared to that healing in bonus. That's the greatest strength fire has. Sucks that you have to rely on healers but they also rely on you not to make bad decisions while tanking like taking unnecessary DMG because you didn't block.

i sit right up there and say "fire only gets the 80% healing increase because of its high health ...and the amount of dmg it takes "

and you respond by saying "Fire has the bonus healing to overcome the low defense and the high DMG taken when they get knocked down." oh well -_- ....


i think ur missing the point. If a fire and ice tank take the exact same hit while not blocking ... this is the difference in the two ice can use a shield to prevent incoming dmg until he is healed .... fire can not, only use self heals... so which one is more vulnerable or susceptible to death. The person who can heal themselves for 2k over time, (after getting hit for 10k) or the person who can ignore a great deal of dmg?...

I've done all the hallways without blocking and a solo healer. If they hadn't of nerfed absorb heat that would of been the go to power in the those hallways.

Another solution could be for a defense buff of some sort (like maybe removing the strikethrough penalty on defense) while we have a power active (ie: same timer as our increased health).

My bad. I just wanted to clarify that the high HP is not a reason for extra heals. Its more like a perma reflect. Shields extend the amount of dmg you can take just like more HP does.

I didn't miss your point. My point is you shouldn't take hits when youre not blocking that would put you in jeopardy. All the moves in t5 are easy to predict so if you're about to take a big hit you should be blocking. No ifs ands or buts about it. As fire you can block and take 16k DMG with over 13k defense. That's very close to an ice tank with reflect up(can take 18kish DMG with reflect before death) but the HP boost is constant with fire where shields are temporary.

HP is constantly fluctuating its nothing constant about it now defense is buffed no matter what circumstances... and unless ur perfect u will sometimes get hit w/o blocking... but consider this how is it that a power can sometimes pause incoming dmg that is equated to about 250% of its overall health even compared to a power that cost more power has a longer cooldown but only covers about 1/8th of your overall health or 1/9th of the power its compared to ...if stoke flames scaled differently where as it was possible to do 4k healing w/ reasonable dom/resto stats because right now 4k is only benifitical to blocking dmg .... but 2k over time is laugable sometimes...

I think you two may be looking at symptoms on this now instead of the actual problem. DLC 7 forces Tanks to turle up far too much just to survive. A Tank's two functions shouldn't HAVE to be limited to just blocking and firing off a power or two to gain/maintain aggro then rinsing and repeating for the entire fight.

This is where the problem lies for Tanks in general for DLC 7 content.


Where Fire Tanks get hurt here is in the mechanics. Earth's mitigation is always going on and Ice can cycle shields, thus keeping the full mitigational effect of their power(s) going even when they are Blocking. Fire tanks get 3 forms of mitigation when you get deep into the meat of it:

1. Higher health
2. Self-heals
3. Higher healing bonus

When a Fire Tank is Blocking we can keep our higher health mitigation active but our healing bonus is only useful if we are being healed and the self-heals can't happen (we have one HoT, but the recharge timer on it and the time it lasts makes it negligible for this topic). So at best Fire Tanks keep 2/3 of their mitigation when Blocking after a power use while the other two powersets keep 100% of theirs.

This is where the problem lies for Fire Tanks in DLC 7 content.

You should block more and/or your healers should keep you topped off so you always have your full health available in case of emergency. Unless I take a big hit, I'm always at or near full HP. Even when I do take a big hit its easy for the healer to get me full again.

You're equating shields to heals. That's absolutely not the correct way to think about it. Shields are temporary HP boosts. Sort of like a reserve tank for health. You still take DMG with a shield up but its not taken directly to your HP. For fire it works backwards. You take the DMG to your HP but your healers heal you almost double what they normally should. If you're blocking, the damage you take in is nothing compared to the heals you're getting in.

A tanks main function is to keep aggro and not die. Not dying means you're going to be blocking a lot. If you get a chance, try doing something like gates and see how much DMG you can do since you don't have to block. Then compare that to how much DMG the DPS are doing and realize how pointless it is to try and do DMG as a support role.

Same deal with the self heals. They're nowhere near good enough to warrant a healing based tank setup. So I write that off and focus on survivability(health).

Yes ice can cycle shields. But coming out of block puts them in a more vulnerable state so those shields don't last quite as long. Better block and maximize shield duration by taking less dmg.

Earth has it a bit better where they just take 50% off the top. But they also need to leave themselves vulnerable to recast that absorbtion.

No one power has it easier or harder. They all incorporate different elements that will determine how you should play the power.

Again, any boosts to self heals would require some other bonus to be nerfed or taken away. If not it would require a massive overhaul on fires mechanics and in that case they should just make a new power and leave fire alone so each power can stand apart from each other.