HL "IS" Op

The thing is, everything has to have cons, if it doesn't it's called broken. Something can still be OP without being broken.

No P.I. is a definite positive. If any other power could do max damage without having to set up something first, they would.
Gadgets not having a 60% buff was an example used to show that you don't need one to still be considered a top dps power.
The fact that it doesn't need a finisher makes it less of a con and more of just a differentiation.
Weaker at range can applied to most dps powers.

Basically, you can't compare HL to other dps standards because it was made and played completely different.

i dont really understand what you mean. HL does have to complete its might animation to combo into precison. ie: claw > hold claw, ram > whip thrash, snap trap > fan, grasping hand > fan. all of the might animations in these different combos must fully complete in order to combo into the prec abilities. the prec things are what are being clipped, just like weapon attacks.


and HL does have multi-tap combos. claw > hold claw > ram > whip thrash is:

power > hold melee > tap range > tap melee

HL actually has much deeper and longer multi tap combos than celestial, considering HL's infinite combos and the different ways they can be executed.

By multi-tap, I meant multiple taps to go to the next move. In HL, 1 button ppress = 1 power combo. Celestial is only 1 to 1 for the first tier abilities. All the other moves take two button presses to get to the next power combo, except one last tier move that takes 3 button presses. Of course, the comparison between HL and Celestial is a bit misleading given that all they really share is the fact that powers can combo. After that, they're as different as can be in terms of everything else. But how they combo is one of the key distinctions I was trying to illustrate. Celestial is like a slower cast high-risk high-reward version of HL. It's like HL meets old-school Fire, i.e. interrupt-prone.

In terms of the timing of the animation, it may have been adjusted since I last looked at it. I'll get on the test server to re-verify my opinion on that. Last I looked, which was honestly probably 6 months ago, Power Ram to Construct Snap Trap was just about as quick as any precision to might clip. Definitely faster than any might to precision transition I've ever seen (not counting powers glitched at the time like Whirling Dervish). Maybe the issue wasn't as pervasive as I've assumed and progress has already been made on it.

i think your missing my point .... the P.I, the 60%er, and 35%er; lets say u add this to HL and further enhance the dmg .bzbcause now u do the same dmg as right not but u put a P.I down to do MORE dmg, u have a 35% THAT DOES MORE DMG, and a 60% to do MORE dmg... THESE ARE ADVANTAGES THAT HL DO NOT HAVE THAT MOST OTHER POWERS DO OR RATHER NOT VERY GOOD AT.... u get me ?

I do think that HL does too much damage even the basic combos like ram>snap>fan does really great damage fast.

I do not care if it gets nerf HL never bothered me and I enjoyed the 6 months I played it.

I think YOU'RE missing MY point. None of that matters BECASUE HL is a whole different beast compared to any other power set in the game. What other ones would need to be "OP" HL wouldn't BECAUSE it's so different...comprende?

DLC 8, and these threads are still being made

i was pointing out the cons not once in this thread did i once say HL was OP .... i simply was pointing out the cons of it for dpsing.... you argued me w/ nothing at all by making no sense by saying wat i say is irreverent or something... i read this and i said HL is not OP ... i said it has cons ... these are the cons i see .... i listed my own cons .... these are my own personal opinions of how wat i view as a con of the power now how is it that you can argue MY OPINION and say ur right.. something being "overpowered" is an opinion so i couldn't argue that but wat i could point out are the drawbacks of the power, IN MY OPINION ....AGAIN MY PERSONAL VIEWS OF WAT I (EMPHASIS ON THE I) FEEL ARE CONS ABOUT THIS POWER.... SO AGAIN ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT THIS IS NOT A WAY FOR HL TO BE OP? IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE BEING "OP" IS AN OPINION. THESE ARE MY PERSONAL NEGATIVES ABOUT HL THAT KEEP THEM FROM BEING "OP" TO ME ... YOU MAY FEEL THAT THEY COULD BE OP ANOTHER WAY AND I DON'T DOUBT THAT BUT HOW CAN U ARGUE MY OPINION OF HOW SOMETHING CAN BE "OP" DID U JUST FEEL LIKE ARGUING .... OK HOW ABOUT THIS THEN ... IN A FIGHT I FEEL LIKE SUPERMAN WOULD LOSE TO GOKU AM I RIGHT OR WRONG ?

Apparently you're HL but you know so little about it.

If you use ram whip/snap fan in Nexus, ram will hit twice. If you get 3 ticks from ram you are touching the boss and you will die. Whip thrash only hits 4 times, it can hit more than 3 targets and the damage doesn't split. For a full T5 dps, each hit will do around 150 - 450 damage. You won't see a whip thrash hit for 700 unless you are buffed. Fan hits up to 3 targets only and it's damage will do around 400 - 1200. You can actually do FFF in 2.1 - 2.2 seconds. If you're doing it in 3 seconds then you clip too slowly. One rotation of FFF will do approximately 2500 - 3500 damage to a single target. You said you've been in Nexus but you somehow think there are 5 Lex's in the first encounter. Since you probably weren't paying attention, there are actually 4. You also wouldn't multiply FFF's single target damage by 4 because Ram wouldn't hit all the Lex's if they weren't more or less in a straight line, Snap Trap only hits 1 target, and Fan only hits 3.

I concur with the OP, HL is OPed... It is too cohesive with clipping so in order to bring their damage in line with the others they should nerf the damage a bit to bring their numbers in line with the clipping exploit; or do the more arduous thing by making clipping more cohesive to EVERY powerset. I was a beast HL DPS before I utilized clipping, but it was possible for me to get out DPSed by any class, but now that I started incorporating clipping, It seems like it's impossible for me to be out DPSed by another powerset (other than HL) Theres a reason why most of the watch tower and H.O.D is HL and it's not because of the shiny green and yellow rings.

Clipping is an exploit? Wow. The devs should ban all the DPS then. >.>

Sp

Spoken like a true game flavor taster. Here, here, and cheers! Trust me, making all the powers the same has a name: communism. Stop it.

Ever played a role playing game? Each role has its unique strengths. Without individual, unique strengths, what are roles for? A different skin? Same thing applies to power sets. Enjoy the flavor of the game. Don't be a commie.

if you want to nerf HL to be the same dmg as all the others then you should also nerf all the other powers to be as terrible as HL in pvp.

Goku > Superman.

And those cons STILL don't mean they hurt HL and that it CAN'T be OP.

watch this:

Gadgets loses its only high duration aoe outside of melee range.
Gadgets can't chain one power into another in the form of a combo.
Gadgets is one of the power hungriest dps in the game.
Gadgets has 2 powers that can completely miss if the target moves far enough.
Gadgets loses 2 of its main dots outside of medium range.
Gadgets doesn't have a 60% modifier.
Gadgets is pretty average at aoeing.

Must mean Gadgets can't be OP right? Forget that it's one of the best pve and probably the best pvp dps power in the game with the options of amazing burst, dots, heavy cc (of which non can be blocked/lunged to counter), and an unrivaled finisher thanks to home turf mods. Those cons just mean its not broken...it can still be too strong, not saying it is tho.

IMHO, there aren't any "OP" powers. When they're first released, such as Celestial right now for example, they're usually a little stronger than the rest. Not always, but frequently.
What matters the most as @Lynx has mentioned, is the players skill. Another good example of that is (and I don't mean this to sound at all like I'm gloating) electric healing. I. LOVE. Electric. I've solo healed many, many, many raids and used to be in very high demand before I stopped playing for a lengthy period of time (to which I just recently started playing again.) And I almost always saw people bad mouthing Electric saying it's a terrible healer and a big power sucker... I put out higher numbers, consumed less power, had more ease of using and could solo heal any raid (including the T5 raids, not the entire thing mind you... But when a healer KO'd I could keep the team alive for a bit).
So ultimately, there is no OP power and no "bad" power. Just good players and bad players. Some powers have a slight advantage in their role than others but that doesn't make them OP it just makes them easier to use.

I have played every power set for DPS except earth. I have been playing sine launch and I just switched to HL. My opinion is HL is not OP. The player makes it OP. There is no other power set that you have to work as hard with to put up great numbers. All of the HL powers suck for damage. Period. It's the constructs that make up the difference. And they hit just like any 2 tap hold or 3 tap hold combos do for all you 1 hander, DW, MA, staff, etc fans. And don't forget all those weapons hit multiple enemies in a cone or aoe as do HL constructs. The SPEED of HL may be a little OP but that is the player doing that not the power set. Not everyone can play HL to a high level. Me included yet. Takes a lot of practice with clipping and timing to master it. If you don't keep clipping everything you will fall way behind other might based power sets as long as trolls keep feeding them power. There are a lot of BAD HL DPS out there let me tell you. It is def not a power set where you say I am going to switch to HL today and top the charts in nexus or wave cause let me tell you something, you won't.

We multiple great DPS in the league that rotate around powersets a lot.
In PvE HL is consistently 15-20% harder hitting on a high end level (source: same people playing together on different powersets all the time).
It's not dominating PvP though, so noone should care.

I'd like to thank Agnetta for challenging my opinion. You do have to wait out the animations before initiating a power combo. HL certainly has a collection of strengths. Many other powersets share maybe a handful of similar strengths. No specific strength is really that far out of line with anything else. It's just that no other powerset has that many strengths available to leverage at the same time.

For example, the animation time of Snap Trap is a short and Ram is very short and makes for a great opener for ranged or melee options. Construct versions of whip thrash gives you clippable white damage for a single button press whereas weapons usually don't offer good clipping options until after you've executed a series of small damage taps first. Construct hold claw gives nice melee splash damage. These strengths come together to offer a variety of rotations well suited for a variety of scenarios. Most of those rotations leverage the variety of strengths in multiple ways.

Why so much hate towards HL OP???

Eat a snickers bro!!

first of all your dumb I was giving estimations I do.t actually measure how fast I can do fff. So yoy are critiquing my estimates real cool. And I have seen single whipthrashes crit for over 700 and i said multiply fff damage by 4 as a good estimate and u gave 1424 precision so if your hitting that low that's weird