Tanking on a necro currently is broken, I agree. I was doing the x2's in shard of fear with a Guardian and they lasted as long a dragoon's reflex's with around 2.5k HPS the tank was dead in one round after their temps wore off. With a necro pet tanking the healers didn't even need to be there. That's how big the difference is between pet tanking and Guardian tanking. Quantifying this with a Defiler doing 1k HPS is not a good measurement for balance. I play a Defiler myself and i'm not overly well geared, I have no raid loot and minimal heroic loot and can still push 1500+ HPS where only one target in the group is taking damage. To further illustrate this disparity. We were in Freethinkers last night, we only had like 15 people in the raid or so. Yet with a necro pet tanking we were still able to clear to the 2nd? named. The only reason we couldn't beat that named is the necro was chosen by the script each pull (not always first but yeah) to be the person stunned until you killed their add. Their pet would die in seconds once they were prevented from healing it and we would wipe. As a guild we talked about the necro pet tanking the raid during form up, no one was really happy about cheesing it but with only 15 people in the raid and with how OP the pet tanking is it really wasn't a choice for that raid. Oh and the necro was out healing the entire heal team. This was with a necro who had only just betrayed from conjy a day earlier and had never pet tanked for a group before, he was still learning how to pet tank.
Anyone know why daybreak have made the Conjy/necros pets so OP? is it just a coding error of some sort? Using pets to tank raids is absurd, and the damage the dps pets are kicking out atm is insane.
Necros got some AAs in EoF that really made us more powerful. So did other classes. There is always necro hate out there. I can't speak about necro tanking on raids because my guild hasn't tried it. I know I am doing well when I solo on names etc because tainted heals is great. It was always great on live. As far as our DPS that has always been high on TLE. When people say lifeburn is broken I have no clue what they are talking about. When I use it my HP go down and I need some serious healing. As far as HPs, our tank pets have always had a ton. I never looked at mitigation so can't speak to that. If people cry for nerfs to one class and their AAs....they start the nerf bat swinging. Sooner or later its going to hit your class. Next expansion a different class will probably get an ability that some will feel is OP and start to complain about that. Soon enough summoners will lose some of their power compared to other classes. Just wait a month or two and necros will be crying about how they suck.
IMO it needs to hit every class & every piece of gear. C'mon DBG, you can do it! NERF NERF NERF, nerf it hard, nerf it NOW. Regardless, I can't think of a single good reason for a tank pet to have 3x as much health as the best-geared raid Paladin on the server, so yes, perhaps Conjy pets need a slightly bigger nerf than do actual player tanks. IMO, pets are there to augment the Conjy, not to take the place of an entire player archetype even in heroic dungeons, much less on raids. However, with all this in mind, it's well to remember that Onra called for buffs to tanks, not nerfs to pets. I'm calling for nerfs, period.
In order for them to nerf pets on TLE they have to nerf them on live, which does not seem like a good idea as pet hp directly affects dps. The issue with pets is that they initially did not share stats with the owner during the expac, which is why it has so much hp now. Once tanks start getting that stamina bonus and/or max hp AAs, they will begin to bypass pets.
I get what you're saying, but the problem is that should have already been happening, but it's not because those AAs haven't been released yet. That's a broken system, which IMO leads to a broken server. This, actually, is one of the reasons I've always been opposed to "special rules" servers in the first place, because "special rules" lead to special problems that can not be separated from the other non-special servers; it's why, for instance, changes to PVP almost always adversely affect PvE, & vice-versa. On Live servers, IMO, every class right now is so overpowered it's not even funny. Yes, I'd be quite happy to see all class abilities, all gear, etc., nerfed. I dunno, maybe people would actually want to group for something other than dungeons again. So, again I say NERF NERF NERF.
The problem is if they nerf pets and do nothing to boost tank classes no one will be clearing any meaningful raid content as I see it. Calling for nerfs is all well and good if current content is do-able in its current form, anyone who has raided EoF knows this is not exactly the case at the moment.
That's sensible, but it leads me back to the question I asked further up this page, to which nobody has responded: in the original EoF, how much health did your average tank have when they were clearing Emerald Halls & Freethinkers? Because the content was doable then, with real player tanks tanking instead of conjy pets. So, I find myself wondering if there's a problem beyond merely tank & pet health -- i.e., something is wrong with the content itself.
You can't quite compare old EoF to TLE EoF. There have been so many changes implemented in the game that gear now needs crazy stats (str / wis / agi / int / sta) just to keep up. IIRC, my raiding Paladin had around 13k hp on original EoF. I think overall DBG has done an excellent job on EoF, the raid content is clearable, yet still very difficult on the higher end mobs. I will agree with Onra though, tanks need HP increases to be able to handle the incoming damage, so nercro/conj can go back to doing damage, maybe off tanking an add here or there.
Indeed, which is the point I'm making: what you're seeing on TLE is not the EoF you remember. The game itself has changed FAR too much to have that happen, & as a result, it's going to present major balance headaches no matter what they do. I don't see that changing, so it's probably likely that Veta is correct, & this won't actually be "fixed" until later expansions grant access to the important tank AAs. But even then that might not avail anything, due to the issues with gear Onra mentions. I'm not sure there's a fix.
I have to agree with you - and it's complete headache for everyone, both devs and players. I know I'm all gloom and doom, but I really don't want to play this game in such an untraditional fashion as ..my MT is a necro pet. Just...Can't do it.
I feel like the situation is more complex than we're making it out to be. The summoner pets are very strange in what they are better or worse at tanking than player tanks. On the low end, it really doesn't matter what tanks, we cleared Freethinkers with a Paladin tank, granted it was hard, but we still did it. In the middle tier, above Freethinkers, but below the extremely hard mobs, like Mutagenic Outcast, Woushi, and Avatar of Growth, the Necro pet is the best, because it can take the blows and be spike healed back up with tainted heals which is just crazy strong. However, in the top tier of content, IE Mutagenic Outcast, Woushi, etc etc, the Guardian still wins, partially because of the human element, but also because of the defensive temps. It's a very strange act to have to try and balance, I don't envy the devs.
Side note, the main issue with tank pets I think, is that they negate certain tank specific encounter mechanics.
Hmmm. Where do dirges fit on this list? Can they hit as hard as Illusionists? Or are they so low as to not matter?
I think Dirges in TLE are not the Dirges you are thinking of (jedi hand wave), but they do buff well.
In order to just nerf classes you would have to nerf everything and pretty much overhaul the game because content wouldn't be doable. Lets say an encounter requires x amount of hp/hps/dps. You could do it before but everyone gets nerfed to where the encounter is now not doable. Then they have to redo the encounter so the content currently matters. If they nerf live then it will directly affect TLE, then that content has to be revamped... again. That seems like a huge waste of time.
