(TLP) Possible solutions to "permacamped" raid targets

Drex: Your example isn't the best since they're on suspension. Dozens of other cases where people are getting away with things without a vacation from the game that would be better.

Tulkas got suspended? Huzzah!

I will say that he got away with a lot of garbage many times without being popped, that for sure.

However... I am pleasantly surprised that DBG actually did something about that guy.

In honor of DBG stepping in and doing the right thing, I shall refrain from making any further complaint posts until I finish this cup of coffee.

Glad he got suspended. Now all the 'it's IS boxer he is using' people can get out of here. We told everyone he was warping and obviously we proved it

Supposedly it's not regarding Lockjaw that he's suspended. My connections don't have me privy to every detail, but been told by TL friends that Serakan (his main in TL) was claiming it was for something non-LJ.

I tend to not believe toxic people, so even though I trust my sources, getting their info from someone I expect to be a liar doesn't improve my belief in its accuracy. But that's all the knowledge I can give on such.

It feels good regardless even it was something secondary that got him though.

Back on topic though - naming names and such can push a lock.

Drexll you started an argument about my post, with out being constructive.. Being competitive is the nature of time lock progression servers.. was with fippy/vulak and with sleeper/combine..

You'd have to wait until the expansion is beaten too see instancing for all minor bosses in an expansion, so that's about a 2 week wait at most to start seeing some content. The only content you'd have to wait for the following expansion to unlock is the "end game" content for that expansion.

You need to be able to remove your self from the bickering and arguments to be able to look at things from both sides.. The hardcore raiders need "something" that is exclusive to their time investment, socking, grinding to be first to max level ect.. they should be rewarded by having the end game content exclusive to anyone willing to "compete" and play it like it was in 99.

At the same time you need too accommodate casual and returning players, these players want to raid too. But they arnt willing to compete in the nature that's needed to see the end game while its current. I see no reason it should be handed to people who arnt going to play at the level you need too to see the content.. So these people still deserve to kill something.. so as soon as an expansion is beaten minor raid targets become spawnable via some method yet to be determined..

For many many years in everquest a number of guilds raided 2-3 expansions behind what was current because one guild have everything else locked down. I see no reason it should be any different on a TLP server.

I my self would love to be a casual and be able to spawn my own raid bosses for my guild, as it stands right now if I want any content I have to compete for it. I have to fight fire with fire.. my mages vrs theirs..

I find "competing in the nature that's needed to see the end game while its current" to be absolutely ridiculous as things stand now. Am I misunderstanding, or are you saying that I'm not "competitive enough" if I'm not 6-boxing a mage army? Cuz that's what it's sounding like, and I find that notion preposterous. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you.

I've always been a hardcore gamer, ok? I will be a hardcore raider once I bother leveling myself, which I'm not doing right now because:

1. I'm gonna run out of things to do on this server no matter how slowly I take it, and
2. I somehow got hit with that RIDICULOUS "spam" flag (despite never spamming anything, anywhere) so I can't even communicate with anyone in-game right now, so I havent bothered trying to play.

I don't think things should be handed to people who don't work for it. I always liked being one of the top players in one of the top guilds in any game I've played, including EQ. I'm fine with competition, as long as it's a FAIR competition, because I am and always have been very competitive and very competent at my chosen class. I used to write guides for eqnecro.com back in the day, I know what Im doing. So don't think I'm trying to poop on people "being the best," because I want to (and have no doubt I will be) "one of the best," too.

That said, I don't think we should foster the "pay to win" culture that seems to be developing in EQ by making it so that only those who 6-box currently out-of-tune classes (or any class, for that matter) are deemed "worthy" of seeing raid content. That's never how it worked in EQ. Back in the real days of classic Planar progression; you couldn't even run multiple clients on 1 computer, and computers cost a lot more back then. So sure, you'd have a few folks running two toons on two machines, and maybe even "that one guy" running 3, but that was it. AND they actually had to have some SKILL in order to successfully box, as there weren't "perfectly legal" 3rd party programs automating things for them by reproducing clicks across multiple clients/computers.

Basically, as it stands now, people with NO SKILL but who are willing to toss out more rl cash are able to monopolize content that people with REAL SKILL can't get to because the Magey McNeckbeards and their 6 box armies are able to outDPS and basically mow down content that real, SKILLED, COMPETENT players who actually play their classes right can't get to. I find it beyond silly to argue "skill" and "work put in" when the REALITY is multi-boxers with little required skill and even less "work put in" can and are monopolizing content.

On top of this, we have the population issues on Ragefire. In the original days of the Planes, you had a typical server pool of 1000 people competing for the Planes. Ragefire has a population of around 4000, four times that of classic. It is comparing apples to oranges to say that the competition is as it always has been when clearly it's not due to the increased server population.

So, I know this is long-winded, but to sum it up, I'm right there with you in that I agree that nobody is "entitled" to see high end content. People should earn it. That said, Magey McNeckbeard didn't "earn it" by exploiting broken mechanics (for this era) and pl-ing himself and his 1 or 2 other class toons that he intended to use for raids. He isn't "earning" the gear he's getting by sitting there in the Planes with his boxxing friend and the two of them killstealing legit groups who earned their way into the planes and who are just as capable as killing everything in there on their own, just not as quickly as Magey McNeckbeard who wins "the DPS race."

Paying for and boxing 6 accounts isn't "earning" Jack Diddly, bro. Folks with more skill than the 1-click wonders are being locked out of content they HAVE earned the right to experience.

Don't bring a knife to a gun fight bruh. You want to compete, step your game up son!

Thats fine, but don't make a fool of yourself by claiming you have "leet skillz" or "earned" or "worked for" something others haven't because you pay $90 a month to 6-box an army of imbalanced (for this era) toons. Seriously, the guy's whole post was about those things.

This ought to make your day, then.

--Jade

This......all day long.

Jadefox, you did indeed just make my day! Woot!

/hugz

There is only one solution that addresses the issue, but it will drive TLP servers further from classic, and maybe that is ok. Back in the wild and wooly days of PoP when it first came out, PoTime was not instanced. The cblocking, drama fest was pretty much like what you are seeing on ragefire and lockjaw. No there were no mage armies tieing up the spawns, but the same crap was happening. From the time they instanced PoTime forward the live servers became much less the wild wild west and generally content was far more available for everyone.

If you want to get rid of the drama, instance the raid content with 5 day lockouts on em. If you want to get rid of the lockout manipulation make them like the one-offs in TDS... you get the lockout when you engage, not when you beat the mob.

The base code (or at least prototype for it) for at least vox and nagafen already exists both in the anniversary events and old man mackensie raids. Shouldn't be too hard to implement. Likewise it shouldn't be exceptionally hard to do this for hate, fear and sky. Get 6 characters together, get an instance of these.

If you don't want to stray that far from classic, then put up with the drama. If you want to get rid of the drama and guilds locking down content from everyone else (real or perceived) then instance the raids with lockouts.

Those that do not remember the past are doomed to relive it.

He did earn it. He camped it harder then you, and was rewarded for it. You want to be the best you have to no life it like all the rest.

Right, instancing raid zones ruined EQ and everyone ragequit and deleted their characters because of it...

Instancing should have been done from the very beginning of EQ. For the first few years of EQ one guild on each server locked down end game content and no one else got to experience that content until said guild was ready to release it. Well guess what? Every single one of us with an all access account has paid to see and use that end game content. (And until a couple years ago, anyone who wanted to play EQ had to pay for a sub.)

So, given 2 groups camping Fear... 1 group real people who are very skilled at their respective classes, 1 group a single dude boxing 6 mages.. let's say both groups have been there for an equal amount of time. Lets even say 10 hours. The group of "real people" engages a target first... then the magebox rolls in and killsteals (which is perfectly legal since DBG wont spring for GMs to enforce a pnp,) are you saying that that dude "camped it harder" and is more deserving of the loot than the other folks?

Camped it smarter, therefore harder. So yes.

Whelp, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I think that kind of opinion logically leads to the death of Everquest. Eventually the only people who will play are those willing to 6-box mages as they're the only ones deemed "worthy" of anything.

Maybe but you act like mages will be as strong as they are for the entirety of EQ, which is obviously not the case. Classic might be rough for you, maybe you need to find more friends.

Drexll you derailed man.. I feel your passion in what you wrote and im on your side.. I don't think broken mages should be a viable tactic... or SK.. or monks.. or any of the OP changes that have been with TLPs since the changes to global char files. Its something we have to live through and wont matter come velious when pets die to AEs.. we can all hate monks then..

I was talking about a viable way people like me and you, can still see content at some point, without the need too go to that level.. But keeping the true spirit of EQ alive.. yes that's what I believe the true spirit of EQ is, and being competitive at it is doing whatever it takes, gain whatever advantage to get there first. That's why people play 6 mages, that's why people who can box do. People don't like it. But you know the saying "if you cant beat em, join em".

I'd much rather be having a discussion about raid instancing right now..

Actually they don't use RL money. They use a form of racketeering. They block out the content so as to drive up the value of the item so that the casual or semi competitive player is forced to either quit the game or pay an extortion value of kronos to get the item which then feeds them with the krono's they need to keep the mage box army going. Now one could simply say don't feed the trolls but at the end of the day that means "quit playing" because theres no solution around this other than that. How on earth is that healthy for a new server.