If DBG doesn't suspend <CAF>...

I'd agree. There is a stone cold reason why EQ moved to instances for all raids. The same reason why every other mmorpg instances raids. Inb4 omg World of Warcraft had world dragons - No, MC/AQ20-40/BWL/Naxx/Ony were all instanced.

LJ isn't perfect either though. I only recently became a member of LJ, and honestly it does seem a great deal.. nicer. But at the same time, LJ had the benefit of seeing Ragefire's mistakes and thankfully guild leaders were smart enough to work something out before it hit that point - which it most certainly would have.

Your server is completely different. 6 month ruleset? This is a conversation about hardcore raiding competitive nature. Thats the reason why people are coming in whining, and why a rotation was set up in the first place.

Your casual server is full of casuals, which is fine, but of course its going to be a different attitude. I'd rather play single group content and enjoy each expansion for 3 months and get to AA's earlier instead of sitting around for 6 months at a time complimenting one another.

You probably want to combine that one with number 6:


"6. A guild may trade it's rotation position with another guild. The spreadsheet must be updated accordingly."

The existence of a rotation, and the need to kill a gatekeeper mob, limits raid mobs to the guilds on the rotation. Interesting side note: The rotation doesn't explicitly say that non-rotation guilds can't kill rotated raid mobs. It's implied, and universally assumed, but not stated. (nor, I think, was it stated by Daybreak when they said that rotations had to be devised, but I'm saying that without looking it up)

And then provisions 1 and 6 alter that. After 3 hours it becomes FFA, or a guild may trade their position with another guild. Here's where it gets slightly tricky - rule 6 didn't explicitly say they couldn't trade to a non-rotation guild (nor does it say you can't trade it 5 minutes before it becomes FFA)....but common sense would provide that you can't trade to a rotation spot to someone that has nothing to trade back. One would infer that the very use of the word "Trade" means that you cannot just give it to a non-rotation guild, since they can't trade a slot back. That's how I would see it personally, too, but I guess Daybreak's enforcement here will depend on whether they think that language was unfairly unclear.

Long story short: If the rotation council doesn't want guilds giving away their mobs to anyone they want, and wants Daybreak to actually do something about it if they do, they'll probably want to make an absolutely explicit declaration in the rules.

Saytonic is more of a decent player than me? That's the funniest thing I have ever heard. Saytonic kills mobs in the Planes and auctions off the loot, RMT's droppable gear off of Yael... KS's players.. I mean the list goes on.

I give people no drop items for free, I buff people randomly when I see them, I donate noob items to new players, I put people in my group and let them get exp if they spend to long LFG in a zone I'm in.

You think Saytonic is a more decent player than me than you need to wake up from this dream world you're in. Just because I call a spade a spade doesn't mean I sink to anywhere near this persons level. I have WAY more respect than that. I was actually raised to have respect and give people the benefit of a doubt until they prove otherwise.

Oh and heres an obligatory:

"in before Roshen or Radar comes in with a 'this topic had degraded to name calling and is no longer productive'. DBG enforces DBG rules and provides no relevant dispute resolution matters, or takes any effort to provide clarity or encouragement that we will fix any issues or work on adapting towards instancing. please use /guidehelp in game so your comments can get sent to mailerdaemon. Oh and don't be mean and please hug each other all the time."

zzzz

Just once I'd like to see a well thought out post from one of them that doesn't end in a lock and actually addresses the massive issues and front-line requests.

Really? Casual server? Our guilds are spanking RF guilds currently with how many guilds are killing targets. You're delusional.

So much logic in this. To you, hardcore raiding competitive nature only exists on Ragefire, due to the 3 month release of kunark instead of classic. Makes me wonder how there's been ANY hardcore raiding guild on this game before this since expansions take longer than 3 months to release. I also like how you label lockjaw a "casual" server full of "casuals". Last time I checked, the guilds down the same mobs you do, and with rotation, just as much.

To summarize: Terrible mindset, completely wrong, and arrogant with a holier than thou attitude. You wonder why people say LJ is a better atmosphere - this contributes to that.

RMT guild breaks rotation to kill a raid target so that they can sell the loot. Nothing to see here, move along please.

This is the exact reason DBG should punish the entire guild as stated in previous threads. If guilds that support RMT are allowed to jump the rotation then there is no reason to have a rotation at all.

It's because you're not worth their time. Nor mine for that matter. You've already proven to me you're just another tool without a clue. So I'll cease arguing with you.

Seems to me the players on LJ had their fair share of FFA mobs with no rotation before the 6 month announcement was made. The leadership on LJ also had the forethought and wisdom to put a rotation into play BEFORE DBG even thought of enforcing anything.

Big difference in mindset and maturity levels between the guild leadership on RF and LJ. Again, it's a player made problem and the difference is enormous.

Go ask the guilds on LJ how casual Faceless was before they instituted their own rotation. Go ahead....ask how many raid targets the other guilds got.

unfortunately in 2015 you also can't use racial slurs against people, even you don't realize you are using one.

So he sells loot? So what? DBG sells krono that allow people to buy whatever they want, its essentially the same thing and their means of combatting RMT. DBG doesn't even offer a good price for krono yet somehow its "ok" to buy their krono, but someone elses would be considered RMT and therefore illegal. lol.

The way it seams too me with a "player run" rotation.. The guild leaders of the rotation should have to take a vote, too see if any Dev intervention is needed.. People who are not guild leaders that are posting here with pitch forks in hand should contact their guild leaders and go about this in a more orderly fashion. Maybe a new rule is in order for this instance in particular that requires only a 51% vote by guild leaders for dev intervention.

I don't care if someone values ME worth their time in this game. Its the overwhelming majority of these forums that have been pressing the two issues for month, with little to no due diligence being performed or any clarity given other than "we'll make a new server that negates part of the problem, but doesn't work for everyone".

There's a lot to be taken from your baseless attacks at people and attitude. You're an easy target for ridicule, but I'll pass.

I mean look at the end of your statement. If I have a terrible mindset, am completely wrong, and arrogant with a holier than thou attitude, then that makes you a sheep, quick to react, entitled beyond belief that anyone should have an opinion that is not your own.

Lets be real here, Lockjaw is killing the same mobs, and will still be killing the same mobs while RF is clearing the next expansion. I didn't say there's anything wrong with that, I just called it like it is. Maybe thats why my holier than thou attitude is on this server, and why your and zublaks flawless, angelic attitude is on that server?

Hmmm

The term pre-dates its usage as a racial slur by many centuries. Over here in the UK it is still used to describe blunt speaking.

America can blame the Harlem Renaissance for that. As time changes, so do meanings, interpretations, and ... dare I say it ... everything else??

I enjoy that your retort is riddled with more insults. Still following your logic, by perspective, any raider on Live could call you a casual and be correct then?

Hmmm

Of course, languages evolve, or in some cases devolve as the usage changes, but the original meaning is still used, there it is not automatically a racist slur, context is everything.

Nope, incorrect. Because that is not my logic, albeit appears to be your interpretation. I said the two servers are, in idea and nature, different. I'd be glad to discuss any of this further with your through PMs, but I'm not going to fuel this derail anymore.

CAF did nothing wrong is the thing people should take of the 5 pages of nonsense we injected into this hate thread.