[ZOE MAX] Something that the nerf of ZOE will remind us.

Not true at all. I only use charge and there is no lumbering circle. You simply turn quickly (using my extremely high mouse sensitvity) and then activate charge and control your movement in the direction you want to go - eg. out of doors, buildings etc.

Charge is highly effective and when I have it available to use I simply don't die to infantry if there are friendlies for me to run to/cover.

Basically, charge can make you nearly invulnerable when used correctly. It virtually guarantees escape for a player who knows what they are doing.

They were the best performing because almost nobody pulled them and thus on average, the people that did were the more experinced and dedicated players, which higby even mentioned.

I think the ZOE nerf will remind VS how dangerous C4 and decimators were...

At least we'll finally be able to hit the damn thing... like every other faction's MAX.

Sans ZOE, how is VS and TR MAX all that much different?

I'd easily consider Fractures > Vortex, and the AI guns are nearly identical in performance.

VS Cheap AV is better than TR cheap AV... but that's about it... and damage potential is still comparable, it's just that Pounders are the hardest effing weapons to hit anything with

That's pretty much it, really. Stock VS MAX is quite well balanced against the TR. Before MAX abilities they were leading by a small margin, but nothing dramatic. Both the VS and TR have versatile and deadly MAXes. Personally, I love the comets, and would vigorously argue that they're the best default MAX AV weapon in the game. I haven't actually had a chance to try out the vortexes in battle, I have been surprised by them on more than one occasion. That overcharged hitscan laser blast has caused me to bug out more than once! Without having used it myself though, I can't really comment!

The TR's AV could use some work, most likely. Fractures are way too versatile at the moment, and pounders are very difficult and not terrible rewarding.

As for the NC? Eh. The Falcons are generally useless at longer ranges, but so are pounders, so I can't complain too loudly. Really, I would be happy with them if they gave them a flat projectile velocity instead of this annoying scaling crapola, and reverted back to the old cannon firing effects instead of these big ugly, smokey missiles. The "new" firing effect introduced in GU08 (I think) made them ugly and unsatisfying weapons. The Ravens aren't terribly exciting, but I suppose they get the job done.

As a primarily NC player, it always feels weird being on this side of a nerf.

one dumbfire doesnt kill a zoe but it does leave it with only 1 or 2 bars of health left which makes it pretty much dead as someone just has to look at it the wrong way for it to die
1 or 2 bullets is just milliseconds and with the armor a max has its nothing as 5/6 or 7 bullets mean almost the same thing since you shoot 2 at a time

lol, if you and other NC/TR are able to do all that combination, then why are people so scared of ZOE? or what, ZOE does not die to concussion + AV + decimator + etc.? not only it does, it does it 30% faster

i quit using ZOE long ago, and i will pour all those certs into flac now

given how most infantry will be using flac soon, it will be even easier for my blueshifts. max charge + max flac = death to rebels and terrans

it does seem that TR and NC believe ZOE to be some sort of god

what if i told you that it is physically impossible to control the direction and origin of all projectiles and evade them even if you move fast? a clip of an assault rifle will chip away over a quarter of your armor. a grenade nearby will do even more than that. AV grenade will nearly kill you if you're already damaged

survivability with ZOE is not higher, it is lower. to make it higher you need to be lucky and very skilled - god level skillled - to control and predict all the stuff that flies your way.

now, with flac and 30 seconds cooldown Charge, you will know what it feels like facing regular max. it's tough

Well, we are getting buff to the dumbfire rockets speed, so it would be easier to shoot them (on PTS)

Rockets will be getting a nerf to the hipfire accuracy though, which will affect reaction time and firing on the move.

vs will probably have more experienced maxes on average now. provided the crutch of zoe didnt hurt their skills too bad.

Not really. A ZOE MAX and a Charge MAX play quite differently, which means that a lot of these people will be disappointed when they won't be able to pull the lone wolf stands they were able to do. Charge is a beast in both survivability and initiative, but requires considerable more teamplay and support. A lone wolf Charge MAX is a soon to be dead MAX.

The only thing that could be different, is the amount of certs invested at this point.

It was also made very clear at the time that one of the reason why VS MAXes were so well performing was that usually only very high skill people (some of them MAX specialists) ever pulled them. Whereas on the NC and TR sides, MAXes were more common because more lower BR players pulled them, players who consequently didn't do anywhere near as well as the VS MAXs.

I'm fully expecting the VS MAX to get the same overnerf treatment as the Magrider a few months ago.

I wouldn't hold my breath on ZOE getting restored. What comes out of PTS will be pretty much permanent. The main difference between the Magrider and the VS MAX (and is a huge difference) is that the Magrider was completely decimated into uselessness after the CU02 patch. On the other hand, whatever happens to ZOE, including a complete erase of the ability, won't affect the actual MAX being great on its own.

The initial "overnerf" of the Magrider was bug/implementation related and did not take them very long to correct.

I understand that having fewer higher skilled people can bias the figures, my point is only that even without ZOE the VS have a very good MAX if you practice with it and have some skill. ZOE basically allows you to be great without having to try- hence why people think of it as EZ mode and why people are afraid of it getting balanced.

An NC MAX with Aegis has no more offensive capability (and arguably less) than an NC MAX without Aegis and the same is somewhat true for Lockdown- so people who are good with VS MAX should be unconcerned with whether they even have ZOE or not, unless they just want to keep getting relatively easy certs.

The initial overnerf of the Magrider was never corrected. The bugs that were introduced along with those nerfs (that affected every both the Magrider and everything with a turret at the time) were corrected within a couple weeks.

You are right on one thing. The VS MAX is perfectly fine without an empire specific ability. That however was not the case for the Magrider. 10 months after the implementation of CU02, the vehicle is still a free kill for Vanguards and at a severe disadvantage against Prowlers, assuming equally certed, manned and equipped vehicles.

True, in tank vs. tank the Magrider will struggle but I would put money on it still outscoring the Vanguard because it is much better at engaging infantry than the Vanguard and infantry are often the most numerous and greatest threat to vehicles.