Zepher nerf needed soon.

Hopefully not, I Just got it and haven't even used it yet.

You do understand that the hard counter to a Lib is an A2A ESF.

Of course you get owned by the aircraft that is designed to own stuff of the ground it is the Liberators sole purpose for being in the game.

If your getting owned by a Lib its just because someone realised you were to stupid to figure out you needed air-cover.

And under no circumstances should a rocket launcher take out any vehicle in this game in one shot you hypocrite.

Actually, it's a rocketpod ESF, good luck finding those now.

The hard counter to air is air

So the counter to scissors is scissors.

Okay now that we have that dumb argument established.

Welcome to the future.

Libs are hands down the lamest and cheesiest vehicle in any fps/vehicle game, ever.

Anyone can do well, ANYONE.

I didn't think I would have to explain this but ...

ESFs are the only unbalanced thing in the air right now as they are good against everything.

Still despite this ESFs are rock, ground AA is paper because an ESF that hangs around AA is a dead ESF.

Liberators are scissors, Liberators easily handle stuff on the ground as that is what they where made for, but a single ESF represents a threat the Liberator cant ignore and usually the Liberator will then devote all its attention to survival unless it has an escort. Multiple ESFs mean Liberators get wiped from the skies.

And thats the full RPS cycle of air support explained.

Although to me it sounds like your issue is that you really just don't want to depend on anyone in a game built around teamwork.

As in your team needs to be well balanced to win.

If you lack ESFs your opponents are going to exploit that by fielding a ton of Liberators. Just like if you Lack tanks you'll get rolled over by enemy infantry and armor.

This right here.

Fix the flexibility of ESF's and you fix the balance issues between ground and air. As is, you have too much of the ESF population focusing on farming ground targets and not enough on establishing air superiority.

Okay so let me get this straight...

If you lack air you get creamed by air.
If you lack tanks you get creamed by air and tanks.
If you lack infantry you get...something

What perfect balance we have.

If you lack infantry you never get anything done.

Yes isn't nice to know that if you lack either infantry armor or air-support you will utterly fail. I'm happy your catching on.

And yes air is a highly versatile and deadly component in the cycle but its also the easiest to upset because you are quite a bit more vulnerable than people on the ground seem to realise as threats come from everywhere and are often inescapable due to the lack of cover in the sky.

Air has more counters then anything else in the game as they have to worry about ground vehicles (skyguard - its there and it will be fixed) and infantry (stupid non-rendering AA MAXes and lock on rocket launchers) when they are in close/close-ish and this is in addition to A2A ESFs which are lethal at any altitude.

If your being harassed by aircraft you simply aren't doing enough to take them out.

Step 1: Roll in with tanks/air
Step 2: Spawncamp doors
Step 3: Have a couple people land and cap points
Step 4: Capture base and move on

Why are you trying to pick just one?

Whenever someone refers to a tactic as "skillless" and demands it be nerfed or removed based on that subjectivity, I immediately dismiss the argument and write off the person making it as an idiot who doesn't want to win. These are the same people who whine when they get beaten in a fighting game by a "cheap" move or character, and the same people who insist on "tournament rules" for Super Smash Brothers. They always threaten to childishly take their ball and go home if they don't get their way.

If you deliberately limit yourself, you aren't going to win.

This is a different issue entirely, the indefensibly of bases. Bases are so easy to take that there is often no more then 5 guys attempting to defend anything, thus you don't really need anything more then an armor/air zerg to convince those 5 guys that staying here isn't worth it.

So really you don't have an issue with OP air or tanks but the fact that you cannot hold any territory you take. I for one agree this game of ring around the rosey we have been playing with base capping is starting to wear on me. We need a reason to defend our holdings.

Jurun made a really nice point on the second page. What makes Liberators and ESFs so weird in Planetside 2 is it's so easy for them to deploy their weapons. ESFs can more or less turret in the sky to deploy their rocket pods - their issues with time on target are pretty minor - and Liberators can literally sit there immobile while their gun lays waste to anything around. I don't think there's ever going to be a satisfying balance while these weapons are so trivial to use; they need some kind of limitation (eg. not being able to turret in the air while firing their weapons at pinpoint accuracy).

The Planetside Liberator is a good example. It was pretty durable and had a good role but it wasn't ridiculous because while the weapon was powerful it had heavy limitations on how it could be aimed.

Even removing the Liberator's ability to turret at low speed would probably improve the current situation a lot, because it's significantly more difficult to get rounds on target when the aircraft is maneuvering, and if it had to move fast or fall out of the sky then it would be forced to deal with that. That would help with ESFs a lot as well in a similar way.

Why do you start out with an AA belly gun then?

What about the flash?

I was using the anti-tank seconday weapon for the lib, which shoots 1 grenade then reloads (forgot it's name and I'm lazy to log-in just to look for the name), I think it's the Dalton you named. The scenario was this: I saw a sunderer and I tried to shoot at it, missed horribly and instead I hit the area next to the sundy. Then I got a kill and realized people were spawning on that sunderer so I kept shooting AROUND it and kept getting kills.

I am primarily a tanker and have absolutely no problems with libs taking me out.
Considering how easy it is for 1 ESF to take one out, to be extremely effective they need a lot of air support.

Science FICTION =\= Reality