For my own curiosity... Currently PS2 makes use of both recoil and cone of fire. How would you all feel if recoil was increased and cone of fire was removed (or fixed to a very low value)? The net effect would be that where your weapon points, rounds go, but holding your weapon on target would become more difficult. Thoughts? P.S. This is not an original idea. Blacklight: Retribution did exactly this a while back.
Wait what? You want to take double-RNG out of the game and increase the skill cap?! You're nutters! How are newbies going to get kills without RNG head-shots!? Note to self: Check out Blacklight: Retribution.
but wouldn't properly tuned recoil + cone of fire make the skill cap higher since you need to learn how to burst fire correctly to prevent the COF from going insane as well as learn to deal with the recoil at the same time?mostly the random COF headshots only seem to happen to me in CQC. not that I would be apposed to the change.
100% against this. If anything, there needs to be more Spread on certain guns that don't have enough Recoil currently ....Namely SMG's because that's how almost every SMG since the days of CS were balanced. They're supposed to be close range dancing bullet hoses with no real Reticle bloom while moving but terrible random Cone-spread to keep them from getting headshots at mid-range. PS2's SMG's are literally fully automatic 750-800 RPM scout rifles and I'm ****ing sick of it. AR's might need a little more of both recoil and spread too. My mostly stock BattleMedic NS1 isn't even the best AR my faction has but sometimes I feel like I'm firing a Vanu I-Win gun with extra damage ... especially when I check my medals and notice I'm getting kill streak after kill streak with it. ="William Petersen, post: 2661806, member: 159040"]Wait what? You want to take double-RNG out of the game and increase the skill cap?! You're nutters! How are newbies going to get kills without RNG head-shots!?[/quote] Your comment is a Strawman There's already DOZENS of semi-autos with little to no randomness or spread at all. They just have very modest RPM's or require ADS'ing so almost no one uses them.... ...b/c they have a higher skill cap already
Sounds like a terrible idea that would heavily favor certain guns over others and require a complete rework of all weapons.
As long as it is 0/0 vertical recoil only. High FSM and/or High Horizontal recoil are stupid in the grand scheme of things.
Day of Defeat did it first. It was pretty cool, though it made the difference between a newbie and a veteran huge. Veterans could compensate and use pretty much any weapon like a perfect laser beam of death, and newbies could barely hit someone on the opposite side of a walk-in closet.
Op Flash, Red Orchestra 1/2, ArmA and a number of other game mods also use this method. What I meant in my original statement was that Blacklight recently changed systems. It's the only game that I've every heard of completely revamping gunplay after release.
I like this idea. Or at least keep CoF for hipfiring and increase the CoF while hipfiring for most firearms. This accounts for the innate inaccuracy of point-shooting, where you're not exactly sure where your shots are going if you don't sight them in. But when using iron sights or optics, your shots should land where your sights say they should land (barring any deviation caused by ballistics). It simply doesn't make sense that my crosshairs tell me that a shot should connect when they veer far off to the left or right. For example, this is 5.56x45 recoil out of a 5 pound carbine: Recoil is pretty significant. The target is a 12" steel gong at 100 yards (can't see the gong really), and there's no way that a second semi-automatic shot could hit the same target if I was firing as quickly as I could pull the trigger. If I do about 200 rounds after awhile I get a bit of a headache from the recoil affecting my neck. That and eyestrain. So I switch to .22 until my headache goes away. I'd guess that burst-fire or automatic fire should only be effective at 25-30 yards... and even then not against small targets. 50 yards from a supported position possibly. But at the same time the bullets will always go pretty close to where my sights say they'll go. No matter how quickly I pull the trigger. Sure, after awhile my sights will be pointing somewhere at that hillside instead of the target, but the bullets will still be going to that hillside! There is a bit of horizontal recoil when shooting firearms, so it's not an imaginary thing. You can see a bit of horizontal recoil at work in the carbine I'm shooting in the picture above (it does go slightly to the right) Some guns just tend to kick that way. Or it's because of how the shooter holds the rifle. But horizontal recoil does indeed happen. First Shot Multipliers are pretty dumb. If anything there should be a higher multiplier for later shots, ie the 3d shot should have a higher multiplier than the 2d shot. This correctly captures the difficult of regaining the proper stance and posture after shooting. It's not like recoil magically goes down after the first shot or anything. Pretty much most of the time you should be using semi-automatic fire (at least if you want to be effective). Take a look at this video, which is a compilation of footage from the Syria conflict showing how both sides fight: The government troops (the guys with helmets) almost always use semi-automatic fire unless they mean to suppress the enemy. The rebels (the guys mostly without helmets) meanwhile are often firing fully automatically from the hip. Some rebels are a bit more disciplined and are firing in semi-automatic mode. Really you should be firing in semi-automatic most of the time, and fully automatic fire is only good for keeping the enemy's heads down.
True, semi-auto is probably better (for both your back and your accuracy). But in real life it only takes 1 or 2 bullets to kill. In this game, we will often need 5-10 bullets in order to guarantee a kill. I also like the idea of subsequent shot multipliers, makes sense since you would rarely have the ability to keep firing shot after shot after shot and still stay on target. Yeah, a small amount of horizontal recoil is Ok since it is just a small amount, but it would feel much better for overall gunplay if horizontal for all weapons was lowered. Just a small QOL adjustment. Vertical can go up to make up for the loss of horizontal, however. Granted, gunplay in this game is mostly fine as it is, but shot multipliers would be an interesting experiment to see how players would react to a subsequent shot multiplier system. On the PTS of course. The rage on Live would flood forumside for weeks to come. Also, that tank cannon recoil 0_0. seems like that kind of force would slowly tear the tank apart. And toss the guys inside like a salad
I liked the Beta gunplay of Blacklight much much better. Back then, the sights would not reset themselves after incurring recoil, which itself was very high and unpredictable, so you had to manually move the reticle back to target after each burst. It was like an exercise in effective mousing, and I loved that gunplay. It was extremely exciting being one of the better players during that phase, I loved the game. After the "revamp" where recoil became easier to control and also auto resets itself, it's just a COD clone of run and gun playstyle with instant deaths around every corner. It's still "fun" in a casual sense, but it's no longer a game I can see myself putting great amounts of time into. I do still enjoy going CQC BAR every once in a while and seeing SMG bads get mad cause I be aimin headshots on dem.
I did actually mull over this sometime last year. I might have actually posted it in suggestions, but it was at a time when i couldnt give a ****. Exactly my thoughts...
I wouldn't really mind it if weapons damage were increased significantly, at a cost of maybe 3x the recoil that we currently have. Pretty much currently if someone unloads on you at point blank it often feels like a single shot anyhow. 3-4 bullets to kill seems reasonable, and TTK will mostly stay the same because the difficulty of landing shots without careful aim will go up. And yea... tanks in Planetside 2 are made out of paper and shoot spitballs compared to tanks in real life. Yet infantry still complain about 'em.
