Why would I use the Mag scatter over the mag shot or commissioner?

Discussion in 'Test Server: Discussion' started by Bape, Jul 29, 2014.

  1. Bape

    So I played all 3 factions in the PTS testing all 3 empire specific weapons for about 3-4 hours. My conclusion the mag scatter is basically a worthless pistol to have.

    Mag scatter

    POINT BLANK = 2 shots to kill even a Headshot is 2 shots
    7m= 3-4 shot to kill if you actually hit them with all the spread
    Slow RoF
    no range
    only 4 rounds per reload
    Reload is long for just a 4 round pistol
    You only can kill 1-2 infantry before a reload = death obviously

    This gun is really only good at killing one infantry AT POINT BLANK any farther he will basically murder you. Why would I use this gun over the mag shot,rebel,desperado,underboss, and commissioner?

    If someone can argue why the mag scatter is fine as it is please explain but don't say "because it a shotgun" I want something I missed or im clearly not seeing when im using this gun and yes I know it a pistol but still my argument is why would I use this over better options?

    My suggestion

    Buff ammo capacity from 4 to 8 or add extended magazine
    reduce the spread
    • Up x 4
  2. Rohxer

    I spent an hour with it as my primary (on a stalker infil) and agree. There's no benefit over any other secondary at its lethal range, and it's completely useless at anything beyond a few meters. I found it about as useful as the snowball gun, though at least with that you can still damage at range.

    I like your suggestions. They make it more palatable without changing it's basic function. It would remain a niche weapon, not even close to OP, yet occasionally useful.
  3. Hosp

    It does need a bit of a buff after trying it myself. However, I highly doubt it will get 8 rounds. I don't know if you were around, but there was a time when cloakers could use semi-autos. Community screamed bloody murder about it. Now NC is specifically getting a shotgun secondary. It should never approach a semi-auto.

    That being said, My suggestions:

    Slightly reduce CoF, make it easier to hit with out to 8m, in my tests past 5- 6m pellets were already missing. No point to 2-shot someone point blank if you can knife them point blank to begin with, not give yourself away and not use any ammo.

    Add 1-2 Rounds to Magazine OR Speed up Reload Speed.

    Essentially, this weapon needs to be better than a knife, with a better effective range, but not as good as a Commissioner or Rebel @ 10m which fire faster, have more ammo, and still pack a punch.

    EDIT: I'm aware, ADS does actually tighten the cone a bit, but do you want to ADS a shotgun in shotgun range with a paper class where movement keeps you alive?
  4. Bape

    6 or 7 will be fine but 4 is just terrible.
  5. 7 Drunk Midgets

    The point isn't to be able to kill someone from full health with a sidearm. The purpose of a sidearm is a finisher, and the mag-scatter does that job very well. I paired it with the bruiser in Allatum yesterday and was a force to be reckoned with. If I ran out of ammo on the bruiser or I knew if I tried to shoot again I would die, I would simply pull out the mag-scatter and blast away. Secondaries are secondaries for a reason. I haven't tried stalker infil with it, but I would still run with a commissioner either way.
    • Up x 1
  6. Bape

    Yes of course any pistol is good when u run out of ammo on your primary. I am really talking about snipers or stalker infiltrators not anything else.
  7. 7 Drunk Midgets

    Snipers shouldn't let people get close in the first place, and stalker infils should be using something else to begin with.
  8. Kociboss

    Why would you create another thread about this? There are plenty already.
  9. CuteBeaver

    Really??? Interesting I had a different experience with it.

    I absolutely loved this gun. I think its a very much a playstyle thing. I primarily play stalker infiltrator. This weapon centers around using the Knife. Normally I am using a crossbow CQC. The downside being the 1 second time between shots, but this has absolutely no downsides up close. Its basically enables easy mode knife kills with very little risk so long as your position was good for the ambush. For easy usage just don't silence it and go for 1 body shot + knife. Or silence the weapon and go for 1 headshot + knife. The fire rate absolutely blows the crossbows away for ambush style play.

    I think you need to be a stalker infiltrator to appreciate it. Probably also one that prefers to stab things...
  10. minhalexus

    So basically I'm supposed to buy this gun to do the Pistol+knife combo? Not worth my 1000 certs.

    I'm better off with the Rebel which does the knife combo just fine due to it's faster ROF than the revolvers.
    Also it's not restricted to 5m to be effective at anything.

    Besides SOE is probably going to reintroduce the 625 damage ES knives in August or September.
    So basically the one upside to this gun will be blown away in a month or two.

    They are going to give more customizations to knives, and I can bet one of them would be to increase the damage to 625.
  11. CuteBeaver

    Okay so it doesn't match your playstyle? It doesn't make it a bad weapon. This is hands down my favorite weapon of the 3 faction specific pistols for ambushing. I didn't HAVE to knife with it either to get kills It was so bloody easy to make follow ups. Typical NC whines about something others would dream of having for the faction specific sidearm. Also knives were brought down to 500 damage because of the changes to how nanoweave works. Knives now cut through nanoweave as if it were not even there thanks it it only resisting small arms fire. I highly doubt that SOE is going to increase knife damage. This weapon is easy to handle, has lower risk up close, and the spread means even someone with bad aim can still down targets with a few clicks of the mouse.
  12. minhalexus

    Maybe you haven't used the Comissioner then.

    The only place the Magscatter has an advantage is within 5m, and fails terribly after that.
    The Comissioner can compete fairly well within that 5m and is the second best long ranged side-arm (after crossbow).

    The silencer feature looked good, but in practice it sucks with the Silencer.

    The only notable edge the Magscatter has is the Pistol+Knife combo, which is something it is likely to lose in September when they give more customizations to the knife.

    I would wonder what customizations SOE is going to bring to the Knife, if buffing it against infantry is not one of them.
    They are most likely going to change the knife like they changes the AB tanks of the ESFs.

    The Magscatter would be unarguably the most useless pistol once that happens.

    In it's current state, I would gladly trade this gun for the:- Repeater/Beamer/Spiker/ AMP.
  13. Syphers

    ? nah burst secondaries are just as good as most primaries in cqc and semis can pack the same punch with ok aiming. They should be tweaked as perfectly viable and competitive weapons in their respective range. Teh gun is underwhelming compared to the all around superior burst pistols/AMP and the revolvers.
  14. Syphers

    Whats so special about 1 hit - knife when you can tap twice your regular pistol and knife under the same delay
  15. drhead

    I do have to agree that there is little reason to use the Mag-Scatter over the Crossbow. Mag-Scatter does 600 damage in a short range, while the crossbow does 650 within 35m and 500 at minimum. The Crossbow is also inherently silent and doesn't have the huge downward recoil of the Mag-Scatter. Why would I want to be limited to attacking targets point-blank when I could be dealing the same damage or more over a distance?
  16. CuteBeaver

    I guess the simplest answer as to why a single shot + knife kill is so awesome for stalker infiltrators comes down to decreased risk. Your more likely to kill a target without sustaining injuries if you do it quickly, and also beat the heavy assaults human reaction time so they can't put up their NMG shield.... Generally speaking if your kills are clean you can escape or relocate without other enemies paying attention.

    Where as if your firing away several times at a target you tend to attract more attention. The COMMY is great, dont get me wrong. However it doesn't allow you to zip past someone and body shot knife. You need to make that effort for a headshot in order to do that. Not impossible but harder to do when your tailing someone. Headshotting using the COMMY from a standstill is no problem, or if they are pre-occupied with another target . Another bonus is that even when cloaked the circular pellet spread indicator thingy is always visible. There is no guesswork with this weapon you know exactly where those little shards are going to land. So for what the Mag Scatter does right, I have to say I like it. The Mag Scatter is way more forgiving up close then say the crossbow. With the crossbow you need to hit that target because if you miss its over. This weapon allows for error up close. I think it will be less frustrating for newer stalker infiltrators to use.
  17. Plague Rat

    Not every gun has to be able to do everything. Personally I like how the mag-scatter fits into the NC side-arm lineup. We have the all around magshot, the rebel for solid damage and quick headshot kills out 15m, the Desperado for bust fire havoc, and now we'll have the mag-scatter for a sizable close range punch. The commissioner isn't the be-all-end-all either, it has more than it's share of downsides that I take particular annoyance with.

    I do like it better than the commissioner for several reasons:
    1. It has less of a priority on precision. In fact, trying for headshots usually does more harm than good, and you maximize your damage by simply drilling into the torso and that can easily be done on the fly to moving targets in close range where even normal speeds cross a lot of screen real estate quickly. A quarter second not spent aiming for the head can be (and has been) the difference between a win and loss.
    2. Reload speed. 1.8 and 2.6 respectively. Compared to the 2.5 to 3 of the underboss or the 3 to 4 of the commissioner, that means the long reload of the Mag-Scatter is roughly the same as the short reload on the underboss, which means less weapon downtime. Especially with Stalker cloak, you don't have another weapon to switch to if you're caught during a reload, and I just find the times on the revolvers to be intolerable.
    3. It's a shotgun. It's a close range snap shot weapon and that makes it makes a FANTASTIC secondary for a rifle loadouts. Saved me more than once on the PTS.

    Don't get me wrong, there's a thing or two I'd like to see done differently with it:
    - Slight faster rate of fire. just 15 rpm or to give a roughly ~10% increase in fire speed. I just want to be able to get the kill shot off faster so I'm having to rely on my knife to finish the fight less often.
    - Optional smart choke attachment. This is what the suppressor first showed up as. Now that I know what smart chokes are actually meant to do in game (tighter spread when ADS, looser when hip) I want one for my Mag-Scatter.

    Not everyone will like it, and it's not everyone's style. But after my experiences, even if it ships as is, I consider it wroth picking up, and I already have the SC ready to buy it when it becomes available.
    • Up x 1
  18. Rohxer

    You've got a pretty unique playstyle, and if someone plays as a pure ambusher then I suppose the weapon has some merit.

    For me though it boils down to this: if you are spotted as a stalker infiltrator from anywhere beyond 5m, and this is your only weapon, you're just free certs for the opposing team. Maybe that's true in general with stalker infils, but I still like to have a fighting chance. With any other secondary you can actually shoot back and hope to at least tickle them before you die. ;)

    For any other class/setup, it's definitely a fun secondary to have. But so is the flare gun. :p

    eta: You're right though, it's definitely a playstyle thing + conflicting expectations about what it should be.
  19. Shiuriii

    The problem with this weapon is, that it doesn´t excell at anything. At cqc the burst pistols are a much better choice. At range the rebell or the revolvers and the crossbow are also far better than the magscatter. There is just no point in buying this weapon as it is now. It needs:
    -A slightly higher firerate
    -The recoil animation should be less shaky
    -2 rounds more per mag

    This way it would be the best cqc pistol, but it would still suck at any other range.
  20. Bape

    Maybe because devs mostly ignore feedbacks so it better to spam a topic rather just stick with one.