Why do all recoil-heavy weapons have Adv. grip...

...if grips don't do a damn thing to vertical recoil?

Am I missing something?

Or is SOE missing something.

Well yeah, grips have nothing to do with vertical recoil, but almost every gun that can use an Adv. Grip has severe, two-directional, back-and-forth horizontal recoil that limits effective range because you're liable to jitter your shots past the enemy trying to compensate. The Adv. Grip reduces this horizontal recoil sufficiently so that many of these guns only need to have their vertical recoil controlled at all practical engagement ranges, making them hilariously easy to use for anyone who knows which way is down on their mouse. (Gauss SAW, T16, Pulsar C, Carnage, T5 AMC) The only gun I can think of at the moment that gets an Adv. Foregrip but only has horizontal recoil in one direction is the CME. Guns that cannot get an Adv. Foregrip either have no, or less severe, two-directional horizontal pull, or are not intended for medium-to-long range anyway.

Meanwhile ranged guns like the Razor, NS-11A or NS-15M only get a normal foregrip, but only have horizontal recoil pulling one way, which is easy to control for anyone who knows how to pull a mouse diagonally down and left (or right, depending on gun). You can do this without the foregrip too, just needs more compensation

Adv. Grip is good once you have it, but is essentially cert tax to make certain ranged guns actually perform well at range, since you cannot usefully compensate for back and forth jitter spreading out your bursts beyond certain ranges.

The thing is, there is zero correlation between weapon's horizontal recoil values and Adv. grip.

On the other hand, there is very good correlation between weapon's vertical recoil values and Adv. grip.

And yet grip affects horizontal recoil, and not vertical... seems to me something's not quite as it should here.

It used to affect vertical recoil, and then SOE decided to take away the best trait of the NC6 Gauss SAW.

Because modern warfare weapons are so bland and unimaginative that they use stuff like grips and compensators. Why make people buy a weapon and then spend more money to just make it competitive?


Once you get a weapon in Team fortress 2 its good to go and you just need to master it.

Might I say TF2 might be a better game for you then? do you not agree?

Well, in their defence that thing was OP as hell. It was a goddamn belt-fed sniper rifle. Meanwhile, TR only get the Adv. Foregrip on the T16 Bull (ie. the Peashooter) and get a lot of equal recoil on all of their weapons. Not saying "NC OP, BUFF TR" but count your blessings...I'd kill for the Adv. FG on my TMG-50

lol whats with you super sensitive kids now a days? Does every criticism have to be from hate? Do love everything you play that much. Does everything have to be perfect for me to play it. Love or hate no grey areas?

Wipe your tears. I like this game. but Team fortess 2 does weapon design better

Dont ever let me see you complain about this game since its perfect in your eyes.

Simple sentence summing it up, if your going to compare PS2 to a instanced shooter cool, don't expect me to take your seriously when you make bland, biased comments on a daily basis. I will complain about this game whenever the **** I want and theres not much you can do about that kid.

Heres a tip, if you keep your mouth shut people might think your smart, if you open it they will know your stupid.

You can't spend money on weapon upgrades. Only certs.

Competitive? HA! Don't care about "competitiveness", nor do I think weapons aren't "competitive" out of the box.

Giving weapons improvements also means you have to choose something or something else.

All recoil-heavy weapons have adv. grip?
Where's the one on my damn carv then?

That's what I suspected. Was it the change to grips month-two back that made them affect weapon pull speed?

So... SOE single-handedly ruined every recoil-heavy weapon in the game? Just like that?

Wow. I mean they are incompetent, I know it, but... wow.

..............................you're*

Because recoil heavy means low RoF & High Damage, thus benefits more from precision @range (high alpha /low RoF is king at ranges when burst is necessary, thus RoF a non parameter).
Horizontal recoil is the random part of recoil (for vertical and directional recoil both, don't buy this "1 direction recoil only", it's false), vertical recoil is th predictable part of the recoil.
Forward Grip reduces the random part of the recoil.
You learn to counter the predictable part of the recoil

Yes, the counter is harder to master (more jitterry), but that's necessary because of the range advantage

Foregrips used to reduce both horizontal and vertical recoil on Sniper Rifles and LMGs. SOE removed the effect on vertical recoil, but for *all weapons* (many of which never had the vertical recoil reduction) they increased their benefits and made them reduce the maximum horizontal drift/displacement over several shots too. This was overall a buff to foregrips and a nerf to LMGs.

Foregrips -- both normal and advanced -- now benefit accuracy more than they used to, but have no effect on vertical recoil other than to raise the recoil angle for weapons that have an off-vertical pull.

I can't imagine why they thought to balance LMGs around their higher recoil or why they'd nerf ranged weapons at all in a game with painfully useless ranged infantry combat, but that's what happened.

What I meant was that the devs have a stat budget for every weapon. When you get a weapon with the game currency ( SC or certs)
You simply have to spend more to get the weapon up to budget. Its the nature of F2P but I find it boring. I hardly notice if there's a grip or not.

You can do decent without "upgrades" but you will lose in even match ups.

Modern warfare attachments is really a shallow area.

I like the option to form the weapon a bit around my preferences and i like to spend certs for it too. May sound stupid but thats part of the progress and adds some "deepness".

And there are some traps to avoid too, like Assaultrifle + Foregrip.

Except the horizontal recoil is so small, even for TR, that it hardly matters at all. Honestly, horizontal recoil is more of a visual effect and an attempt to give different weapons a different "feel" in case of directional pull than a gameplay mechanic, at least to me.

And of course the weapons with highest horizontal recoil - CQB/short range ones - don't have an access to Adv. grip in the first place. Because it was supposed to reduce vertical recoil so it's only present on medium/long range dedicated guns...

Massive derp all around.

What you mean by traps?

Sometimes you weaken your overall performance by adding attachments, sure every attachment has a downside but sometimes the payoff isnt worth it.

Since foregrips have a downside added they are no longer an option for medics (refering to my playstyle here), i find myself swapping between med-tool and AR the whole time..