Why are long-range snipers being punished?

As the title states, why are snipers punished for sniping at really long ranges? There has always been that annoyance that you don't get any bonus from when a base is captured, but that is quite minor. Furthermore, positioning and such causes even more of a loss of experience and certs. The real annoyance, however, lies with the fact that on top of this, snipers can no longer even kill in one shot at the greatest ranges.

Well, I'm kinda certain this thread is going to get the standard blah, blah, blah about how snipers should not be able to kill in one hit due to how hard it is to retaliate, etc. So here are some preemptive answers to that:

At 350m, it takes slightly more than half a second for a bullet to hit (Parallax used for data), but it cannot kill any opponent at full health and shield. That means that even with lag included, the player will most likely manage to move out of the way while the next bullet is midair, especially if they even remotely can guess where it came from. No human has more than 0.5 sec reaction time. Because the second shot has to be towards the head, or yet another exp bonus is lost. The head shot bonus would be one of the main bonuses for a sniper. And this is if you can line up the second shot perfectly with no time lost, and fire immediately.

Anyways. Those who like long range sniping are blatantly getting a stop sign in their faces . Even the marksman service ribbon only rewards 70 meters. Either returning the one hit kill or giving a higher range service ribbon (at least 275m) on top of the marksman one would make it at least somewhat viable.

Rather than bother with any other part of the argument, the indicated suggestion above is acceptable. If you are satisfied with a new Directive entry then there is nothing more to say.

Every weapon in this game. Every. Single. One. Has effective engagement range. Why do you think snipers are entitled to be the exception? You don't expect to kill people with a shotgun outside 30m, why do you think sniper should be able to use their rifle effectively at > 300m ?

And it's not like the rifle becomes completely unusable, you just need 2 headshots now.

Oh give me a break. You can hardly take a breath outside without some lame coward camping sniper taking potshots at you, or camping the vehicle terminal.

Man up once in a while and fight someone face to face.

Sniping is fine.

Did you read the whole post? I kinda explained why landing two headshots with a bolt action is only viable on AFK, lagging, or complete beginners who doesn't move when hit. The bolt action firerate + the flight time takes too long. Also, i mentioned leaving it as is and simply increasing the reward for pulling it off?

This sounds like "I don't play sniper, and all they do is kill me, so i don't want them any stronger" to me. I don't want stronger snipers. Just not less effect on far more difficult shots with lower chance to hit, OR, bigger reward for pulling said shots off. Currently, the exp/cert producing capability of very long range snipers is sub par.

Also, no. I will not fight you face to face. I will de-cloak right behind you and drop you before you realize there was an attack.

I just landed a headshot at almost 500 meters not too long ago. Needless to say they were already hurt, but I landed the shot. Sniping really is fine, it just takes a little more skill now.

This weak argument got completely invalidated the day they introduced the straight-pull attachment for BASRs.

Why? Because you don't need 2 headshots at any range. 1 headshot + 1 followup bodyshot should do the trick. And that's not that tough to pull off even at extreme range with the straight-pull equipped.


That said, I do agree that it's a shame that long range sniping is punished/not acknowledged the way it is. I like the idea of an extreme range service ribbon. It gives credit where credit is due.

I'm not exactly sure how the luck to have the target being hurt from before has an iota to do with skill... Landing shots like those aren't hard on a stationary target, but getting a kill is 85% of the time guesswork or luck, cause almost no-one stays immobile or on a predictable path for the at least 2.5 seconds needed to hit twice.

Those extreme long range farms from the rock arch at the old The Crown, before those stupid straight-pull attachements ruined the art of sniping ...

Well, first off a straight-pull bolt slightly increases re-chamber time, creating an even larger delay between shots. Secondly, during the time it takes for another bullet to land, assuming perfect accuracy and at a rifle's minimum damage range, a player could still save themselves from a bodyshot via heavy shield and/or medkit.

At that point, even the worst, laggiest player could escape, if they didn't after the first shot.

A very minor delay for the added benefit of not having to re-scope in on your target. The benefit far outweighs the downside.

True, but the same could be said for any weapon. So BASRs aren't unique in this regard. Nor do sniper targets get any more time to pop drugs or IWINShields, due to automatics having to burst/tap fire at their long range targets. TTKs are pretty long at the far end of most weapons' range.

1 HS + 1 BS is certainly not something you can do w/ your eyes closed @250m+. But it's far from impossible, esp if you have the initiative, which any good sniper should have.

It's low-risk, low-reward. Why do you think so many new players tend to take up sniping right from the start? It's usually the only way they can play the game without dying every 30 secs.

And even a good sniper isn't really helping the battle all that much.

Well exactly what do you do? Do you help capture a base? Nope. Do you fight vehicles? Nope. Do you contribute at all to anyone but your own risk-free K/D???

Snipers are cancer.

Pfffft, you don't expect to kill with shotguns outside 10 meters on average more likely.

Sniping is the one thing that hasn't had multiple counters added to it or had its counters buffed. In fact the old Nanoweave was nerf'd because of snipers (making flak and grenade bandolier the go-to option). To top this off the straight pull bolt basically was a flat buff to the already strongest class of sniper rifles in the game

I don't exactly have much sympathy for snipers.

It's not like the higher tier rifles stop being totally effective. The high velocity of the tier 3 rifles means landing a follow up shot is trivial at any range, it just means that your kills per minute will be very inefficient. That's fine since you're presenting yourself to almost zero risk.

If you want to get more kills per minute (i.e. be a useful contributor to the fight), put yourself at some more risk and get closer. It's not a big dilemma.

The bolt actions are the only weapon that can be downright wicked from 0-300m in the right hands, every other infantry weapon has only a 30m or 50m window in which it is effective. Be happy with what you've got.

P.S. You can still OHK other infiltrators at those ranges due to their reduced hit points.

I see you don't grasp the concept of risk versus reward.

Allow me to breakdown the OP's argument with a parody:


Why are shotgun users punished for using shotguns? There has always been that annoyance that you don't get bonus XP for body shots, but that is quite minor. Furthermore, positioning and such causes a loss of K/D and frustration due to constantly dying to explosives, MAXs and heavies. The real annoyance, however, lies with the fact that on top of this, shotguns can no longer even kill in one shot at the maximum range due to pellet spread and steep damage dropoff.

Well, I'm kinda certain this response is going to get the standard blah, blah, blah about how shotguns should not be able to kill in one hit due to how hard it is to retaliate, etc. So here are some preemptive answers to that:

At 30m, the damage dropoff is so steep and the spread is so large that it would take 3-4 hits to drop a target. With a 0.5 second rechamber time between each shot it means it could take upwards of 2 whole seconds to drop a target at a mere 30m range. This is unacceptable especially as headshots with a shotgun at that range are nearly impossible to accomplish and so XP is further reduced.


Anyways. Those who like long range shotgunning are blatantly getting a stop sign in their faces. I mean the marksman ribbon only rewards for headhsots at 70m+. How am I supposed to achieve this with my shotgun that can't even land headshots reliably at 30m? I think the marksman ribbon range should b reduced and shotgun kills should get bonus XP for using a shotgun.

They do in this game!
A human has a reaction time between 0,2 and 0,3 seconds, 0,2 being the absolute minimum and 0,3 somewhere around the top range for a primed person. Anyone who isn't primed can take all the way up to 2 seconds or more to react. this is why people in traffic are told to keep 2 seconds distance to the next car.

Now let's assume the people you are playing against are primed. You fire your first shot and it hits, your PC tells the server with a ping of 0,2. Ping stands for a signal to the server and back, so we only need 0,1 second to get our hit signal to the server. The opponent remarkably also has a ping of 0,2, meaning another 0,1 second time is taken for the signal to arrive at his PC.
Now assuming he's primed and not between 16 to 18 years old and has been playing the game for some time, he'll have a reaction time of 0,3.
Let's add that up. 0,1+0,1+0,3=0,5!

But there's more. If your enemy starts moving... It takes 0,2 seconds before the signal of his movement reaches you through the server. So you have a total of 0,7 seconds before you even see the guy move on your screen, and because PS2 has client-based hit detection it means you can hit his model even though on his PC he's already moving somewhere else.

And this is assuming a primed person and both of you a good internet connection. Just try shooting an engineer repairing a turret, you can often has as much as 1,5 seconds or more before they even seem to react to you! (which is why repairing engineers/scoping infils etc can be knifed twice before they react)

Let me just say this: HAHAHA

I hate it when people quote things they actually don't understand and in this case it is the reaction time. The 0.5 seconds reaction time, where some people actually do go over, is only in a highly specific scenario. These people only have to do one single thing. Press a single button the moment it lights up the screen. That is it. There is only one button to press and only one thing to look at. This is an expected event, although you don't know when to expect it.
The moment we increase task difficulty, the reaction time increases. There is a reason you have to be 2 seconds away from the next car. Within these 2 seconds, you need to be able to do the exact same manoeuvre to not crash into the other car. Due to distances and breaking/steering, this is set at 1,5 seconds to prevent a crash. 1.5 seconds reaction time for an unexpected event where you have 3 choices that can help you out (steering left, right, breaking or a combination). This is for an unexpected event happening right in front of you.

Now we get to the problem in PS2. A sniper shot is unexpected, the victim often doesn't see the source and there are a ton of reactions possible. There is a mitigating factor, as all 4 directions you can go to will end the passive state you where in, making a bullet miss (or lets just simplify to this statement. Movement is a miss). Also, the character is doing this decision constantly, so the reaction time is reduced through habit. Still, the not directly visually identifying of the source (the hit indicators are only so helpful....) is a big one, giving great doubt in to which direction you should go, increasing the time as there are many combination of choices possible. Lets not influence the decision for cover here too, as we assume movement is already a victory. For many people, 0,5 seconds will simply be not enough to react.

Add latency and lag for both characters and the guy barely has time to move at all, as he is still stationary on your screen as you fire the second shot.