There is something wrong with the gameplay. Is it fun? I think so, yet I have noticed that it is only fun when you find a relatively decent fight that has good even numbers. Personally I tried to figure out what was missing for me. Was it Vehicle battles? Maybe, but I find decent Vehicle fights every once in a while. I kept searching and realized what I wanted from Planetside. I wanted that huge open-world combat. The ones where tanks are shooting each other while infantry fight in between them to push into or out of a base. I wanted the kind of battles where planes would fly over on bombing runs helping in the battle without hovering over it. Battles where Infantry needed tanks to fight off enemy infantry that outnumbered them, but still allowed the battle to continue without controlling the flow. I wondered why Planetside 2 was not really offering it. What stops this kind of battle? Is it power creep of infantry mixed with the nerfing of tanks? Again I do not have the answer, but I might have an idea that could help find a solution. The biggest reason I noticed that these huge combined arms gameplay didn’t really exist is because there is no room for it too. Infantry control the close quarters area of combat. Honestly infantry control most of everything in the game. They run from base to base no need of Vechiles except the occasional Sunderer and even then a good squad could just use Medics and Spawn Beacons. I wondered what could change this. What could be the easiest solution to bring out the combined arms core of the game. Find a way where tanks could be the menace of the open field while the infantry stay the heart of close quarters and base combat. Make it so Air was a contributing force without being a dominate force. Remove Lock-ons? Would help a bit but not solve the problem. What to me seems to be the problem? The game is too small. It is not the maps fault. The size of the continents are plenty large enough and honestly Indar is a bit too large. Then what do I mean by the game is too small. It is too compacted. Infantry can go anywhere and everywhere with just a click of the button. They do not have to pull vehicles. They just simply walk to the next base. Solution. This is not a simply one even though I have made it seem that way. They need to redesign the maps. Not just merely take away bases, but they need to completely rethink the design of continents. They need space between bases for tanks to fight and not just a small space but a large space. Bases should be few and far between. The only bases that should matter is Techplants, Bio Labs, Amp Stations, and the Interlink Facilities, like the one on the test server. There should be only a few towers and bases in between and nothing that could stop a force except another force. The Large Facilities however should be sprawling fights. The fights should be spread out and the size of the Facilities should be triple their current size. They should have large courtyard fights mixed with small hallway skirmishes but no choke points that defenders can hold for hours with only a few guys. Also this would make pulling vehicles vital because you would need them to move from large base to large base. This would give players the chance to fight in true large scale open-world combat where tanks fight to stave off an advancing force while air tries to soften the enemy line while infantry and tanks advance using cover like trees, rocks, and even possibly tall grasses or water kind of like a few places in Hossin. This change cannot happen overnight. Some Planetside 1 vets might even say this was how it was in the first game. This game needs a lot of work tweaking and fixing most everything in the game, but I believe the fundamental way the continents are currently designed in the biggest flaw in the game and with a re-design could launch this game to where we all though it could be when we saw that kick-*** trailer. TL;DR: Need more space between bases and less bases. Please post you opinions, critics, grammar mistakes findings, and flame rage(JUST ANOTHER STRIKER NERF POST) posts below.(<----its not about the striker though)
Agreed, especially new Esamir. some areas (I' looking at you, Echo Valley) are practically one big base.
I'll be that guy and cite planetside 1. The lattice only linked main bases and in between were towers that could be taken without any sort of link. In between base battles were very dynamic because of this.
Yeah those bases are literally all one fight usually. Also the area between the Octagon and Bridgeward? that is basically a walking fight between them and the ones all the way west that are also one huge infantry zerg. Yeah I was talking to one of my friends about this and he was like, "That was how it was in PS1." I did not play PS1 btw.
I'm going always going to say that the map is too small. That's not to say that it doesn't get props for being large by itself, I'm not depriving it of that, but it's far too easy to walk between bases. It's not the terrain's fault because just making hard-to-navigate terrain in general would make it a nightmare for everyone, Vehicles and Infantry, but in general things on the map are just too close together. Indar is especially guilty of having things too close together. The only reason Amerish can feel big is because the mountain roads are twisted and winding and it's hard to cut across anywhere that doesn't have a road, save for the valleys. Esamir is better about its base distribution and wide spaces in between bases, but it still could be better in my opinion. Adding more strict limitations to automatic nanite deployment travelling would be helpful. You only need one quick deployment per login and that's when you're first leaving the Warp Gate and either the squad you just joined (just having joined and not removing oneself from it is important) is somewhere else or you need to use that first instant action press. (Honestly, I'd do away with Instant Action too, but not many people would enjoy the experience.) Even a penalty to redployment on suicides - /suicide and pressing delete - would be a suitable start. In my opinion, the complete disjoint and ease of troop movement degrades logistical considerations.
Not much could change due to the scale of the game .. Could nerf lock-on's .. But doesn't change anything when 20 people target the same tank. Pretty much the only thing they could do is both nerf Infantry's capabilities to hurt vehicles AND nerf vehicles capability to hurt infantry. But who would want that ?
The ps2 design is messed up and has been for awhile. It started when the devs designed continents with a focus on territory & resources. Territory provided auraxium, which players were supposed to use to purchase weapons for vehicles & infantry. This was a main component of SOE's business model- as players who purchased auraxium boosts or memberships would gain the resource faster- buy more weapons & put more money into SOE. The fighting would occur because of the need for auraxium. What happened was factions would cap a continent and sit on it, gaining maximum auraxium while idling in the warpgate. PS1's continent design was based on which bases gave your faction an ability. For example: tech plants could spawn MBTs, biolabs provided faster respawns (if my memory serves me correctly), etc. These capabilities could mean the difference b/t capping a continent for bragging rights which was basically the metagame. SOE designed PS2 mechanics around the auraxium system and then scraped it- but still left the territory system for no real reason other than not wanting to start over. This leaves players scratching their head,"What are we fighting for?" Capping continents and eventually the world did not provide any real benefit other than bragging rights- but it was SOMETHING. Again, I think they would've done better to lengthen the lattice between main facilities and provide outposts that weren't part of the lattice as in PS1. Instead we have this system based on factors that were removed from the game and nothing really makes any sense. Alerts were a band aid over the metagame/resource/territory issue.
That sounds like a good idea, Less bases, bases can be farther apart and they can be much larger. small pieces of cover scattered everywhere so infantry did not have to group up, slightly flatter terrain even around the bases(maybe?) That one Biolab on Hossion is a good example the "satellites" are a section of the biolab. you fight for a piece of the base so you can gain a foot hold to take the rest. That gives the Infantry their section of the game with CQC urban fighting with tanks and aircraft limiting their effect on the battle. Tanks/air could be returned to dominating (infantry) and would be the go to choice for assaulting the outside the facility and have a limited supporting friendly /suppressing enemy infantry inside, but would still have to need infantry when inside a base as with out it enemy infantry could easily flank to destroy the tank.
Maybe more things that infantry can hide under/run between making blasting them hard while also giving tanks cover from lock-ons. I'm not talking about ROCK EVERYWHERE or TREES EVERYWHERE but a good balance where infantry are in a forest fighting while tanks and air strafe/attack on the outskirts, road, and open areas. Also make it so that not having tanks and air is a detriment to any force because you would need them to cross open areas, but having too many of them will mean infantry can get close and destroy them because they had no infantry support. This would have to come with less AV long range options with nerfs to AV turrets/Rocket Launcher ranges or maybe another Utility slot for Vehicles to add Smoke/other things instead of sacrificing one trait to fight another. This could be as simple as add a another slot for Air/Ground vehicles where they can choose the less useful items such as ejection seat or use a good trait like Flares/Smoke and not replace Shield/Fire sup. I mean on of the biggest things about this game is the lack of build customization since 1 or 2 builds per class/Vechile is all that really works. Basically what this game needs. I would however want to say that infantry also need to play a role on the outside fights as well. Make it so attacking a base is about fighting back the enemy in the open territory using the combination of arms then when you get to the base the infantry take it while the armor/air stop any flanks from surrounding territory that could destroy sunderers etc. Each part would have their job even in a facility fight and if you pull too much of one it would lead to your demise. The resource system could be used to help with this where the tankers/pilots that are doing their jobs will always tend to keep their tanks/planes pulled while people who hop in to one and don't follow their role(which can vary) will end up being forced to learn their role or play infantry.
On that note, I would love more small, dense stand of trees. It seems like everywhere with trees in any number (Amerish, SW Indar, some of Esamir) have single, widely spaced trees. It would be great if some of them could just be pulled closer together without actually changing the total number.
Yeah I basically want the kind of Trees/rock formations on Hossin. Dense enough to hide in but not so much of them that tanks become completely useless. (Seen a few bases that make for really good diagram for what I'm talking about but I don't remember what the name was)
Also for a World under perpetual war it's remarkably lacking in showing effects of such a war .. Things such as Bunkers, fox holes, craters , even trenches / tunnel systems could dot the landscape to break up the landscape and remove LoS.
I mostly agree with the OP. And I think Esamir especially needs a rework. I also quite like the idea of the onion in stead of the egg. (Bases having layered defenses you need to break before you get to capture it, in stead of having one thin shell and then a juicy center of certs). I also think that only the large bases should be connected with lattice and the rest with hexes. But don't get people get certs for capturing hex bases to discourage ghost capping. I do think that the Lightnings and MBT's should get a survivability boost. At the moment the weakest part of heavy armor is much weaker then any part of a buggy with glass windows.
I'd go so far as to say that not only are the maps to small, but so are the bases. I'd like to see an actual sprawling city like base where you could capture parts of it while trying to force the enemy out. Building to building fighting by infantry with destructable walls and such (in WWII after D-Day they pretty much didn't use doors. They'd blow holes through walls for egress), being able to flank your opponents on foot without an ESF rocketing you into a bloody mist, stuff like that. Gods, I still remember some of those awesome base fights we'd have in PS1! I miss those, and would love to see them brought back in macro scale.
Totally agreed. Current gameplay consists of "many small fights" while Planetside was expected to have few "big battles".
Maybe when the game gets a bit more settled this could become the job of Players. Why have ever server exactly the same. Make it so that players can add these things. I know they are letting players build cool things for EQN why not let them build cool bases, foxholes, bunkers, and etc. to be put into the game when their faction locks the continent(when continent locking comes out) that way people could vote on how they want it to look. Rough idea but I bet it could be implemented. Maybe let outfits capture the bases then when the continent caps they could choose what base it could look like and the surrounding territory(let SOE decide what bases they can choose from and outlying objects so it won't be fortresses of doom).
The biggest problem is simply that ALL units are forced to play for Infantry Based Victory Conditions. For control of Zones ("Bases"), for Resources, and for Conquest XP Bonuses. Ground and Air Vehicles need their own Victory Condition Gameplay that is not tied to Infantry Objectives and having to fight in/around bases built for Infantry. Put some Silos by themselves away from a base. Put a Shield around them. Put a Power Plant elsewhere in the zone and also away from bases. Any unit can knock out the Power Plant with sheer firepower and knock out the Shield. Once the Shield is down, Any unit can knock out the Silos with sheer firepower. Once the Silos are knocked out, it gives a massive one-time Resource and XP Bonus boost to all players present. If the Silos are up, they give an ongoing bonus to the faction owning them. (so they have incentive to protect them) Things like this are easy and can be found in all types of vehicle games. Infantry can show up and try to attack or defend the targets, but the lack of spawn rooms and distance to each target makes them heavily reliant on vehicles. Infantry alone would also struggle to defend these objectives because there is no tedious Infantry Targets (Generators) involved. Other targets can be Railways/Trains, Factories, Docks, Warehouses, Research Facilities, Communications Centers, etc. Just link them in such a way that players can knock out one to then unlock the other target and then hit that.
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...-should-be-longer-roads-between-bases.143731/ Had the same thread, only shorter, so upvoting.
Yeah was happy with the responses in this thread. Their are a lot of good ideas out their about how to change the current meta-game to make it less zergy but still a system that guides people to fight and not ghost cap.
This should be emphasized when the resources change comes. They add ANTS(or whatever they are called, I did not play PS1) which would give Vehicles a good use in the game. I would prefer to keep the Infantry, Vehicles, and Air tied to the same fight and require them to need each other rather than make certain goals for each aspect of the game. You should need all three working in tandem to get, fight, and capture a base.
