VS Directive Reward Weapons are no longer rewards

Most underpowered things get left underpowered, see PPA & L-PPA, ZOE, VS AR's, Comets, Auto-scouts on all factions.
The real reason to play Vanu is shorter queue times.

Not sure how you would come to that conclusion, I have very little attachment to the Orion and Betel or HA gameplay in general and especially so on VS just because of how mediocre the LMG arsenal already is. I dont even have 3k kills with the Orion and Betel combined.

I am only opposed to nerfs because it would be like dropping the SAW from its 200 damage model without giving it anything in return, iconic weapon gone rarely or never to be seen again.

You would have to remake the Orion and Betel entirely or perhaps just make it a carbon copy of the TRAC-5 carbine since its already almost there. Better starting accuracy/smaller CoF, less recoil but more random recoil.
That is, if VS is allowed to have a TRAC-5 carbine as a LMG by increasing the ammo to 50 instead of 40?

I dont really think there would be too much of a difference in how its used though but at least it would finally be "balanced" and we could start looking at why Magriders only have a small pool of players using it and buffing it so its more widely used in the faction since its like 40% less users daily compared to the other MBTs and getting those PPA, MAX and Harasser buffs.

Really? This entire thread has been you bellyaching about tradeoffs.

1. It's the same. Bloody. Gun. I will clock you over the head with the API if I have to to demonstrate this.
2. I don't think the "bling" makes the Betel better. I don't think the Betel is better. That's literally been the entire point of this discussion.
3. No, the BG in the past was not better than the Orion. Grip vs No Grip meant in a 1v1 with equal skill the Orion comes out ahead. BG was a better farming tool.

"I'm not looking for an echo chamber"
-meanwhile:

Okay then.

The only one here dealing with any results is yourself. Most people have to be tricked into looking foolish.

No, your opinion was only incorrect to those with eyes.
I'm not denigrating you for your opinions, I'm calling them wrong. The issue is you have gotten yourself so emotionally invested in this you can no longer distinguish between an attack on your position and an attack on yourself.

My bad I assumed for a moment you were a VS fanatic.

Yes a more balanced gameplay is good and looking at ways to keep the Orion and Betel feeling good is paramount. But if the choice is buffing every other weapon or nerfing those two...

You could start ofcourse with giving the best performing LMG type to all factions as a starter weapon. That would help the 3 factions get closer to one another.

If everyone truly feels that the VS arsenal is uninteresting (its not really underperforming at a glance) then that needs to be adressed. It could be as simple as a sound redesign, making it sound good can be half the enjoyment. Or giving the weapons a bit more unique stuff. One of my idea's has always been to give uninteresting/underperforming weapons access to UB attachments that can be fired instantly. Or adding unique ammo types to the mix. It wouldnt be hard to steal some good ones from other games, like Halo's Needler by reducing direct damage and dealing the rest when the projectile explodes, letting you deal damage to surrounding players if you score more hits in succession but at higher risk of being killed. Or building up Heat on enemies with successive hits and should they die they explode.
Naturally the other factions need similar gadgets and goodies for their uninteresting and underperforming weapons.

The VS population has for a long time been lower. On a per-player basis the Magrider has an equal amount of pulls to the NC and TR. Campagne did the calculations (several times), so the Magrider isnt really used less, there are just fewer people to pull it. Which makes it all the more remarkable that the Magrider actually keeps up and often surpasses the NC and TR counterparts. Its as if some advantages exist on the Magrider that help it be a good tank!

Oh, so it's the Orion, now! As far as I can see, still, after all this from you guys, the Gauss Saw is the single most devastating weapon I've come across. I've played all factions, and the one weapon that regularly is the most effective to me is the Gauss Saw. This is just my personal experience of course, but I've been killed by the Gauss Saw (and the Betel for that matter) more often than I have by the Orion.

Whatever. The proof of the pudding, as they say, is in the eating. We will see what the VS population makes of these nerfs (sorry, I can't give you the pleasure of calling them buffs) by whether or not they continue to use the Betel as much after them. As for the other VS directive rewards, like the Skorpios and Eclipse, which are really much more impacted by this than the Betel, unless the nerfs are severely wound back in short order, I imagine they will be relegated to the scrapheap or mounted on the wall as pretty, but useless, gimicks.

None of what you are writing will change anything. You can't convince me of any of it because of my own personal experience. If that's a problem for you, that's your problem not mine.

Yes the Orion. Based on performance stats its the best of the 3 starter weapons (and maybe you didnt know but the default NC LMG is the GD-22 nowadays). And when your starter weapon on average does between 20 to a whopping 45% more kills with the same amount of users it becomes obvious that the weappn is superior. Especially if you consider the VS being equal to the NC and TR with carbon copy weapons, you can even make a case they are worse.

Your feelings are bad and based on bias. Its not that the Gauss SAW is vastly superior. Its no slouch now that people get it after they have some experience and due to all veterans getting it when it was still a starter weapon it sees as much use as the current starter weapons. Its just that there are a lot of them that you get killed often by one!

Well if I look at my own stats, the SAW is much better than the Betel which is a big reason why I dont really get the arguments for why Betel is such a monster when my KDR with it is just 1.81 while the SAW has 3.67 and more kills with it so its not just some short term 'peak' performance.

Likely due to how I play, im generally not happy just holding a corner or farming kills, I go for objectives and that often means fighting the 'losing' fight outnumbered pushing into a room or taking out a Sunderer etc so the limited ammo in the Betel/Orion hits hard while the SAW is more like "Yeah lets go for 6 more!" after I get the first 1-3 people.

Unfortunately my accuracy scores are kinda bad to use for comparison since im a player that can and will happily send bullets flying at aircraft and such so its hard to tell if im more accurate or not with one of them. I say that because the SAW is actually in the lead there as well for me.

You seem to have completely lost the plot. My reasons for joining this discussion were simply to address the major stumbling block you seem to have regarding Directive weapons and what they actually are. The problem is, in your lack of ability to seperate one argument from another you have gone off to tilt at windmills for things I never said.

For example:

Allow me to quote what I said on page 1:

You started this thread, the least you can do is read it.

Adjusted for accuracy.
I would strongly suggest a little self-moderation before posting next time, since writing stuff like that makes you come off like this:

And I'm rather disinclined to treat with this person.

Again with the stats. Sorry, not convinced. Only personal experience matters.

I don't have any stumbling block. I'm talking about the way the VS directive rewards have been hobbled by the latest upgrades, not just the Betelgeuse but also the Skorpios, Eclipse, and apparently the Darkstar. Everyone keeps wanting to bring this back to being about the Betel, but the simple fact is, ALL VS directive rewards have been impacted by this, the Betel simply the least of all of them. You can go on about other irrelevancies all you like, it's not going to change the fact that the devs will read this and other threads and see they have severely stuffed up. Or not. Either way, whatever they do will affect how VS players choose to keep playing. If the devs want to keep VS in the game, they will have to do something to fix this. Or not and let the game degenerate (resolve?) into NC v TR, which is how most NC and TR want it anyway. Sorry for those who would say otherwise, I've heard and seen the conversations.

No thanks, I'm not interested in reading opinions of those who would introduce irrelevancies to what I was talking of in the OP. None of what you and @Demigan have been saying addresses directly what I wrote. To VS players, ALL of the VS directive weapons have been severely nerfed. Whatever that means for NC and TR players, this is going to have a real effect on how VS treats the weapons and more generally the game. My feeling is that they will all just choose to use other weapons, rather than what the devs clearly intended (at least to me) as being a means to lessen the impact of VS when using those weapons. It's not going to stop VS domination (apparently a thing on PC), because they'll simply use something else. On PS4, particularly Ceres, where VS is usually badly overpopped, often by NC heavies with Saws, these are just more weapons that don't have a chance against the hordes of NC that descend on any and every facility, easily wiping the floor with the fabled Betelgeuse.

Sorry, again, you haven't convinced me of anything because you haven't addressed the issue. All you two can do is talk about stats of weapons, not the fact that this move by the devs has drasticly impacted playability for VS, particularly in an environment where they are the underdogs. On the other hand, everything you've written here, including the attitudes you display, IS on hand for the devs to read and do what they will with it.

Then here's my experience: Low-BR VS players beeline for the Goose and I've seen some have it in the 50s range (means they ONLY fight for kills, no continent control, and certainly not a single class switch). No TR or NC player does that, because only one faction is all too aware of the fact that it's worth it.

My personal experience is that you are a child who will not believe anything other than what agrees with his world-view. You would look at the world and say its flat because your personal experience said so while ignoring any calculation or proof of the opposite.

I've been watching this thread for entertainment value, but this is the most smooth brain statement I have ever seen on the forums.

"2+2 doesn't equal four! In my personal experience, it equals 6 and you cant convince me otherwise!"
"The earth isn't round! In my personal experience, its flat and you cant convince me otherwise!"
"Infils dont need a rework! In my personal experience, they are fine and you cant convince me otherwise!"

1. For the third time, I said on page one that the ammo reduction to some of the other VS directive guns was too far.
2. The only one who keeps bringing us back to the Betel is you. I didn't even mention it until after you brought it up.
3. If you wanted to get noticed by the Devs, this is the wrong place to do it. These forums probably get seen by less than a hundred people. Fortunately for you, this means the audience to you making a complete fool of yourself has thus far been limited.
4. So changing a category of weapons owned by ~20% of their population means the entire VS faction goes away now? What an odd victim complex you have there.

But no, you don't want an echo chamber, not you, nope.

But I thought all the VS were going to quit en mass because Betel lost 10 bullets? Would not the game "the game degenerate (resolve?) into NC v TR, which is how most NC and TR want it anyway"?

I see now why you have so much trouble keeping the things other people have said straight. You don't even seem able to remember what you put in your last paragraph.

Yes, this is all public record on the Internet now. Watching you brag about this is like watching the guy who pissed himself in public crowing that it was all caught on camera.

Once and for all, NONE of you is addressing what I wrote about in the OP. You all have your own personal axes to grind, and that's fine, go ahead. You're not convincing me that what I wrote in the OP is wrong. Ultimately the players will decide, and not based on what you are saying.

Remember when the NC’s Gauss Prime was a beast weapon in the early days. Then it got nerfed into oblivion. Yep, every NC made a beeline to get that gun also. I haven’t been killed by a Gauss Prime in years. LOL.

We talked about the VS weapons that were in a bad shape, we talked about the VS weapons that definitely were not in a bad shape and we adressed your childish notion of "I want more power just because I played a while".

We talked about literally everything that went into your first post. Could you explain what exactly we missed?

You know...normally I would add some long drawn out explanation as to exactly what I think of the topic at hand...But the truth is (in this case) I'm just happy to see the VS getting dunked on after them being OP for the past 2-3 years. Carry on.