ADAD wouldn't be such an issue if lag wasn't involved. It's not that strafing is what the developers are against. It's the unforeseen issues it causes. If Planetside 2 was played in a lan, ADAD wouldn't be an issue at all. It would merely be strafing. Once you through lag in however, and the characters start warping around, then it ceases to be a mechanic and skillful tactic, and goes on to being broken.
Then what is the point of weapons which have 0.75 ads movement? Not an offence I am just wondering if SOE is going to do so If this goes on, SAW would be more effective
It strikes me as a much simpler solution to just add more momentum to character movement. Currently if you are running forward and then instantly whip around to head the other way you will change your heading very fast. You could just make this take a little more time - like in real life where you can't do this because you have momentum and weight to your body. This is pretty much exactly what they did to balance out ZOE movement during its latest balance pass, so this is something they could easily do to infantry too. That would simply make ADADAD-movement easier to track and more natural looking, and thus less effective as a strategy. Some combination of more recoil or COF + a tiny bit more momentum in movement is probably a good way to balance this out IF you feel that this needs balancing. -Stigma
I like this idea the best... I think anyone who's ever attempted to use the battle rifles or bolt actions against the over 67%+ on average number of targets that never stop zigzagging @ full sprint (i do it 2), can sympathize. It might result in infantry being even eaiser to farm with vehicles but the root cause of that has always been the massive size of Shell collision Hulls -- they're like 2ft wide or some insane dimension.
If you add more momentum to strafing I don't see that negating the benefits of a fast-ADS weapon. You can still use it to peek a corner much faster than other weapons. It would really only affect ADAD dodging, and that's only one of many benefits that a fast-ADS weapon has in practical use. A little more momentum wouldn't entirely negate ADAD as a strategy either - it would just make it a little less effective. People with slower response-time would still be juked by the movement. As I've said I'm not sure if this is something that is absolutely needed though. I'm sort of neutral towards the idea. -Stigma
Heh, indeed. I spesifically use this to counter being sniped anytime I feel at risk. It makes you an exceedingly hard target, and as long as you randomize your pattern you can essentially be unsnipable from longer ranges. Protip: if you look straight down then you can't be headshot from behind. Your head (from the same elevation) is basically completely hidden by your body, and thus can't be hit. I did hear that a recent change to hitboxes may have made this change though so that hitboxes hidden by other hitboxes on the same character can now be hit (I haven't tested that yet) - but its a fun little trivia fact -Stigma
I have exactly the opposite opinion that the OP. All those semi-realistic things in games like covers and inability to shoot on the move only serve to lower the skill cap. Faster time to kill serve to lower the skill cap. In something like Unreal Tournament, you can hardly imagine a good player will be killed by a bad player, even in somewhat uneven conditions. It becomes not even funny in Tribes series (lol what? hit an enemy infantryman, who is moving at 300 km/h with a singleshot not hitscan weapon without any targeting help, while moving at 300 km/h by yourself? Oh, and keep in mind that your shots save your inertia too. Usual day in Tribes). But in those new "modern" shooters, any person lucky enough to see your back, can kill you with ease. More people - means even more chaos. Planetside, at least, have longer TTK so the gunfight is not always about who shoots 1st. Console 3rd person shooters gone even further, with the cover system. There, your target is immobile so that you could aim easier. Nah, this is not the future I want to see. At the very least, leave the ADAD in place, I don't want to see the virtual shooting range of a game, where everybody sit behind cover and shoot to the enemies' cover. P.S. There was a pathetically low amount of hitscan weapons in the old shooters, you needed to lead shots all the time and predict where the enemy will appear.
That's very one-dimensional thinking of you. Skill is just about playing the game well with whatever rules that apply. Fighting in Quake and fighting in ARMA both require skill - just very different types of skill. Reducing (or increasing for that matter) how effective ADAD is as a tactic in firefights just changes how you apply skill to the fight, it doesn't remove it. Just as an extreme example, I don't thin that the game would be better if all the weapons were hitscan with no COF and you could hipfire them while jumping without any penalty. Perhaps it wouldn't be objectively "worse" either, but it would certainly be a lot more fastpaced and arcadey as a result, and I just don't think that is what the designers wanted to create in this game. -Stigma
Vast majority of high-rate-of-fire bullets in older FPS's were all hitscan because single core servers and modem lines couldn't handle anything beyond that. Generally the only things with simulated projectiles were grenades and rockets (or "spinfusors"). Any "target leading" required was purely due to Interpolation (lag compensation) not being a feature yet. Not arguing your post, just tidying up this little revision (unless by older FPS's, you only started FPS'ing like 5 years ago)
Not to mention that a number of people run mouse macros, so you can ADAD ridiculously fast with just a push of a button! Which makes it about as skillful as activating the Heavy Assault shield when you're about to go into combat or start taking fire. That is to say, not much really.
Is that really a thing, and not just some conspiracy theory? ... I would imagine that ADAD'ing superfast would just result in you standing almost perfectly still (while still ruining your accuracy) so that seems really counterproductive. You do have SOME momentum in your movement already. It's not a 100% instant change of direction, so unless that sort of superfast ADADAD is still capable of making the netcode spazz-out somehow and produce warping I can't see what would even be the point of it. -Stigma
It is a real thing. Been discussed here. It isn't done superfast... there is a delay between the commands so that there is movement. Video:
I see, thanks for the reference. That dosn't really look like you need a macro to do it for you. Seems like that would just make it more predictable. changing directions that much I agree does mess up the animation, but its not that hard to hit really since you hardly move. it would be a nightmare to try to land a headshot on a person doing that obviously, but with any sort of automatic weapon it seems like you could just shoot center-mass and land plenty of bullets to kill. Actual movement and change of momentum I think are a bit differnt than this sort of glitching of animation that the video shows. If the animation transitions weren't so messy that movement (the centermass of the person) isn't actually very much. I wonder if this was made before or after the changes that came with OMFG. I know there was a lot of animation optimization in those updates. -Stigma
Or don't "fix it" and in fact embrace the fact that player skill elements exist in games for a reason, and are a big part of the reason to play games in the first place. If jumping vs. moving vs. stopping vs. crouching each offer a set of advantages and disadvantages appropriate to a variety of combat situations, then the decision of which to use in any given situation will be deep, interesting, and highly rewarding of player skill. If choices are just arbitrarily eliminated as viable options, then the game boils down to one playstyle, and that's both less interesting and a much shallower game.
Pretty decisively shows that there isn't significant warping and only barely-discernable animation stutter. So this doesn't really seem like something worth reducing game depth over.
The main problem is hit detection, that it can be hard for the clientside netcode to work out. What happens is that during certain frames of animation, the hitbox goes wonky and doesn't register as being hit. This leads to several hits turning into misses, and in PS2 that's all it takes to make the difference between a kill or getting killed. Warping is a whole other problem, but the issue of ADAD movement is very real. Here you can see the magic of ADAD at work...
That video is almost a year old, they already fixed warping while ADAD. The only warp you can now see is: 1. someone is lagging, 2. someone is using hacks. That is it. Most people have problems with strafing cos they can't aim or they did not adjust their sensitivity correctly.
Once again, that video is almost a year old, you wont see that warping anymore if only someone is lagging or using hacks, there is no problem with hit detection or movement while someone is strafing. If someone has problems killing enemy due to hit detection it might be packet lost cos of internet or server is being wonky atm, if someone is blaming strafing then they might need to improve either aim skill or sensitivity.
Add more momentum? More? There is zero momentum to start with. Momentum does not exist in any FPS game (except wwiionline flight model), you can't modify something that doesn't exist. The proper word would be um, mass acceleration and such, momentum is only calculated when you're dealing with collisions of 2 masses, changing velocity by applying opposite force is just good old fashion F=MA.
