Time To Kill Too Quick

Yeah, wouldn't it suck if someone could actually move, and you'd have to be able to TRACK THEM?

The horror! Don't bring that bunny hopping, strafing garbage to my modern shooter.

I dont think this game is about the most skilled twitch player winning every encounter they come across. Its suppose to be war. In war even the lamest grunt could get the drop on a seasoned soldier if he drops his guard for a second.

Higher TTK would see even MORE people darting dangerously across fields, and even more silly A,D,A,Ding.

Ideally, i would love if more people tried to play in REAL squads, tactically clearing rooms and such.

I like how to the fps player in 2012, players moving is "silly"

How silly of that player to jump!

Haha, look at that idiot strafing? Doesn't he know you're meant to ADS, stand still and hold down left click?

If you know PS1 and know the weapon variety available to you and how the guns worked, you will notice that PS2 will never achieve that kind of diversity simply because of TTK.

You will never see unique weapons like the Radiator or Maelstrom, because they do not fit with the TTK requirements. Its also why the Lasher is so different from its original design and why it employs explosive damage instead of the "lashing" that made it so interesting.

DOT-area denial weapons aren't going to make it, because the TTK is simply too short to make them useful. You either get explosives or bullets, thats it.
We already had the fiasco with the Flamethrower in beta precisely for that reason.

Disclaimer: I'm not picking on you because I quoted you, but this thread is full of this nonsense without real life proof, perpetuating the myth that low TTK is somehow a new concept birthed by console playing Call of Duty gamers.

Low TTK is not "new". This is a complete UNTRUTH, and it's a MYTH.

You can't call yourself a hardcore FPS gamer without realizing this.

Doom? Rocket direct hit: dead. Doom 2? Double barrel, dead. BFG? Dead. A few balls of plasma? Dead.
Quake 1 and 2? Rocket at your feet: dead. Quake 3? BFG? Dead. Oh yeah... rail gun? Dead. Enjoy TTK of 0 seconds!
Half-life: GL launcher, double barrel shotgun, tau cannon, gluon, det packs, grenades, trip mines. Nearly all can one shot.
Counter-strike: Everything in the game has TTK roughly less than a second or two.

I could go on all day...

Also, to dispel this "caters to noobs" myth, Counter-Strike is played professionally. For real money. If anyone could do it, there would be no competitions.

I'm sorry, i wasnt into the whole UT thing back in the day. I prefered shooters like Ghost Recon, Rainbow 6 (the originals) over UT and Perfect Dark. My favorite current shooter is Arma 2. While i know that game is too far to the extreme, and i wouldnt want PS2 to go full sim, i just prefer more realistic looking combat. Spazzing out going A,D,A,D looks ******** to me and takes me out of the moment.

i dont see how even more spastic movement should be a staple of shooters in "2012" If anything its a rather old school mechanic. I'd much rather see some sort of dodge and cover twitch mechanic over someone trying to game the system by wiggling L&R.

This is correct. QFT.

Hahaha **** this idea. I Platoon drop with say 50 guys we land on the crown. completely catch them off guard there are probably just as many of us as there were of them. (we had medics and engineers spamming the heal aura and ready to deploy turrets. Guess what happened. They just back peddled after being shot took us down and we didn't even get a chance to deploy squad beacons. With the TTK at its current state its already ******* hard to get the jump. I will quit this game if it gets any harder. In my opinion one or two guys should be able to clear a room of 5. But ATM it takes 20 skilled players or a **** tonne of nade spam. If you have ever played a tactical shooter you would understand that the more vulnerable you are the more you have to think. There are far too many MMO fan boys in this game that support the idea of grinding one player for minutes only to result in you getting an assist. Its silly and takes away from the core aspects of this game. They are aiming for a skill based MMO and are looking to enter Esports. Like anyone is going to want to watch a skill-less meat grind. There is a reason why almost all Esports games Dont even consider time to kill. Its 1 shot headshots, one well placed rocket, one bolt action sniper shot or a sweet grenade placement.
IMO we need to lower the time to kill.

You know what takes me right out of the moment?
A tank that hovers.

I mean, no matter how much I prefer realism, a hovering tank will pretty much break that "authenticity" right there.
So I threw that one out a while ago.

People are approaching PS2 like its supposed to be an MMS, its not.

True, that's another reason why they should increase all ttks across the board, it would allow for much more weapon variety and much more empire themed differences.

This. It's also why HA special weapons are kind of bad in general. There's no reason to use a range limited weapon when I can use a weapon that isn't range limited and still kill people in half a second.

If we ever want to see that kind of diversity in weapons again TTK must change.

A hovering tank doesnt break the "realism" of the game world.

Its 2012, we should be beyond mindless twitch gameplay in shooters(unless its meant to be a twitch shooter). If anything A,D,A,D should trigger a dodge animation. Tactics, strategy and smarts should always win over furiously and mindlessly tapping keys on your KB.

Why do people assume theres no tactics or thinking involved in long TTK games, this is a PERFECT example of how much thought process is involved in these games.

Then, you haven't been reading accurately all the things i said in the various replies i've made. I fully aknowledge that in games like doom, quake, ut, etc ttks are fast, 1-2-3 seconds and even instakills are there, BUT there is a major difference between those games and cod like games. You actually have to hit your shots to achieve those ttks in the former games, while in games like cod or ps2, you can be a complete spaz, spray your smg clip at a guy, and kill him in less than a second. If your aiming and tracking kills are bad, you won't kill anyone in quake and the likes, let alone killing them fast. I won't comment on half life and cs though, since those games sort of marked the moment in history where fps started to go down the drain and become worse and worse up to today's "modern" shooters.

I used to joke with my ut and q3 clans about how terrible players csers where back in the day, and how anybody of us could play cs proficiently even if we found it terrible, while 99% of csers would suck horribly at proper shooters. If someone told us shooters would get worse and worse in order to appeal to the masses we wouldn't have believed it. Reality sucks i guess.

The difference between counterstrike and COD gunplay is that damage in COD is extremely easy to land where as its not in counterstrike. Counterstrike still has a wide variance in how long it takes a good player to kill someone and how long it takes a bad one to achieve the same result. That variance is much much smaller in cod/bf3 type games.

HLdm/quake3 yeah, you could die instantly but making that happen was harder and not nearly as frequent. People moved faster. Weapons weren't designed to be bullet hoses that anyone can pick up and use with no practice either. A full stacked player was also far from instant in those games as well.

You are trying to sell me this mythical version of "how FPS should be" like that one other poster before you.
I'm not buying.

Instead of arguing perception and taste, can we argue what is beneficial for the game?

The crux is this:

If you want larger gameplay variety (CTF, different objectives): you need longer TTK
If you want more diverse weapons: you need longer TTK
If you want diverse roles: you need longer TTK
If you want strategic (not tactical) depth: you need longer TTK

If you want a 3 way TDM with 3000 players, leave TTK as is.

Thanks for posting this, exactly as i was saying, those games actually have even more tactics, thought, and timings to them than your average "awesome" modern shooter. Also, as i told to the person who had no idea what he was talking about, there's basically 0 rocket jumps and crap like that in quake competitive play, it's all map control, thinking, and shooting skills. When the guy rocket jumps in that match he does it only because he can afford it and only because he calculates that the hp/armor he's going to lose are worth it to get to where he needs to go faster so he can steal more armor/hp and starve his opponent.

People think quake/ut, and they automatically think random pub dm/clanarena matches. Well, think again.

lol
I think i play just fine.
If you want waterguns whatever, dont see how that equates to skill but each to their own.

this guy obviously never actually played quake. what do you call the lightning gun or the plasma or the spawn machine gun. lol. they are dead accurate hell half of the guns projectiles i would say are a perfect representation of a hose. The point I am trying to make here is that its open world. people have the freedom to plan the attack and from any direction. your not stuck in an arena where there are enemy at all 360 degrees. Its structured game play that's why it needs to reward the structured players. WITH A LOW IF NOT NONE EXISTANT TTK

I think the issue is they are trying to peel off some of the MMS audience, and to do that they can't have the long-ish TTK of global agenda/team fortress/what have you. Plus people would complain about it being 'unrealistic' (and they still do anyways..).