[Suggestion] Time to fix Tank Mines

Lest I be accused of bias, I'm a tanker. And I don't have a problem with mines being hard to see, or chokepoints existing that encourage their use. Not that real life is an argument, but mines are usually INVISIBLE. At least we get a chance to spot them.

Mineguard is in for a reason (I haven't played with EOD enough to weigh in on it). You can't have it all; either decide to give yourself extra armor against other tanks and rockets, or against mines. I've run mineguard since I started playing, and the times where the big minebang went off and I DIDN'T die are far more numerous than the times where I barely lost a close tank fight and thought "damn, shoulda had armor on instead".

Pre-Hossin, mines had very little relative use because of the openness of the terrain. I'm honestly glad to see this tactical layer seeing a little more importance in the game, and I don't think they're overpowered in their current incarnation. (Although they should be destructible under water - that's a glitch, which I think SOE has confirmed).

My biggest issue with tank mines is "mine bombing" vehicles instead of using them as an ambush weapon. If you want to run up to a target, place explosives, run away and detonate - use C4! Weapons should not be mixing roles like that. Additionally, unlike tank mines, players can be killed after they place the C4 but before they detonate it. Also, C4 costs more.

Tank mines (and, for that matter, anti-infantry mines) should take 2.5 seconds to place.


My second complaint is how few AT mines we have access to. The early certs are two mines for 100 certs and a third for 200 certs. So you can't even kill a second tank. After that the utility pouch is too expensive / badly organized and only increases mine count to five. That's not much of a minefield.

At the very least I'd like to see the 200 cert upgrade unlock two mines instead. I'd also add another mine to the utility pouch and spread the cert cost out. So we could have four mines without utility pouch and seven with. Much better.

Don't forget if you want to create a minefield it'd get very costly in terms of resources, particularly after the resource revamp.

Mine guard also protecting against C4 is tempting but I do agree it'd probably be too powerful an option.

Adding a C4 guard (and moving it off blockade armor for Sunderers) would be a more balanced approach, so you'd always be vulnerable to one anti-tank explosive. Of course, we then have a host of defense options and we encounter the problem that no matter what you choose you kind of feel like you're giving up more than you should.

Splitting the defense slot up sounds great! Would lead to some more varied load outs. Also, putting a C4 guard into the same slot as mine guard would add back a little competition.

Also tempting. I think it'd all depend on quite how much of an effect it'd have.

Right now, tankers can drive over a pair of mines for instant death. If there were a small gap, would they have a fraction second longer to spot the first mine and react at every speed, causing mine deaths to drop slightly, or would almost every tank hit one and have plenty of time to stop, repair, shoot the second mine and continue?

It'd be nice to see that tried out. I kind of expect a full speed tank to die to both mines anyhow as vehicles don't stop quickly, especially without improved brakes.


While we're on the topic of mines... EMP mines anyone?

And why do you think the utility pouch costs what it does?

Exactly, to make it rare for people to carry enough explosives to take out multiple tanks.

it isn't tank mines the water itself is a problem. spawn beacons underwater are just as invulnerable along with any other deployable.

It's not really the cert cost that I don't like, it's that AI mines, AT mines and C4 aren't split so people can't decide what they want. Although, it does suffer from being some of the most expensive, least satisfying certs towards the end, which is another benefit to adding a tank mine and then spreading the cost. Heck, I'd be fine with another anti-infantry mine.

I've never liked the mentality of trying to make things rare through certs. People used to say that for a lot of stuff when the game came out but, of course, everyone unlocked more and more stuff so it's a pretty pathetic way of making encountering something "rare".

No, certs exist because it makes SOE money and the only concerns, albeit conflicting ones, should be providing something that players feel is worth the investment and yet doesn't provide too much disparity against a less certed player (I.E. no more than necessary). Which is exactly what adding a couple mines and spreading the certs out would do. I have a feeling if SOE look at their stats not very many players have utility pouch certed very far. It's in their interests to make it appealing and eat through people's certs.


As for limitations I feel you're overlooking the most used method: Resources. Practically everything SOE wants to limit costs resources. So what if someone places a large minefield? After the resource revamp it'll mean they chose to do that instead of grab a tank, throw grenades etc.

Besides, mines should mean mine fields, area denial. If you don't see the mines it makes no difference how many there are - you die. If you do see them it'll slow you down some more. Two more mines is not going to break the game.

I'm with you on the desire to have mine fields.
But...
NOT if 2 mines kill vehicles like they do today.

That would be OP.

The good thing about having more mines, apart from killing more vehicles, is covering more ground. Right now, we have so few that you can barely cover a road properly.

If we had additional, less damaging, probably cheaper mines, what would happen? Everyone would stack 3 mines on top of each other instead of 2. So you'd cover exactly the same ground, still 1 shot tanks and total resource costs would probably be the same.

This is why I think preventing mines from being stacked would be worth trying. However, as you increase the number of mines to kill you'd increase the distance tanks need to travel, making it easier and easier for them to stop.

With too many, weak mines we may find that the minefields stop being deadly, simply forcing tanks to stop and waste time instead. In that case, I'm not sure that players would feel they were worthwhile. Another major downside would be increased in-game objects.

Maybe it would work but I'd try spacing 2 mines first and see how that plays out.

I don't like the current mines, you have so few that you can't really deny any terrain or stop a tank column, you only kill the first tank, or the tanker that was unlucky to step into one.

They are just a mean to get some certs and not really a defensive option.

Exactly, that's the point. More ground covered, just not as devastating per mine.
Sadly, I don't think we can do spacing when the mines are thrown and not placed.

As a frequent driver and one who has "auraxiumed" tank mines, I have seen both sides of the coin on this one.

In PS1, the tank mines were in larger number and you could carry a ton of them. Also, we had EMP mines! I loved placing mines with an EMP mine near the front of the defense, so enemy drivers would lose control of their vehicle and either die, or be forced to repair in my killbox!

EOD implant is cool and all, but from my experience, the mines don't render in time for me to detect them when I am in a harasser zooming through the terrain.

This is a topic with a lot of heat on both sides, but my suggestion to better your experience for the TIME BEING, is maybe try mine-guard on your load out? I am not trying to tell you how to play, but if mines are your Achilles heel, then why not protect that better? I know the mine-guard gets rid of some other cool mods, but I have found it useful, especially when transporting troops.

Moin

So there's actually a reason to use minguard? NERF MINES!

Seriously, equip EOD and drive carefully offroads on Hossin or equip mineguard and clear a path for your fellow vehicles. You were given the counters, you just decide to not use them.

Well the spacing issue could probably be implemented by making the mines use a slightly modified version of the previous ammo pack implementation.

It'd just have to be tweaked to allow for easier placement so people could actually place mines on more than strictly flat surfaces - it'd also make it possible to add in "deadzones" to make sure the mines aren't stacked on top of each other, as that kind of deployable simply can't be stacked.

Yeah it would have to be the ACE-mechanic. Which is why I don't think it will happen. You know when the ammo box was removed from it? It was possibly the most praised thing in that patch. So to do the reverse, just with tank mines... People won't be happy.

There is a small lake on Amerish, just east of Auraxis Firearms Corps. This lake is just deep enough for a lightning to submerge itself completely. This lake has been here since release, and still exists in post revamp amerish. One day, about week after new amerish's release... I encountered this lake while driving around on my skyguard. Thinking it would go well with my camo, I submerged my skyguard, and awaited air to fly overhead. I ate an ESF, a second, third, fourth, etc. Several pilots came back with LIberators, and much to my surprise, none of them seemed to have good enough aim to hit me, was my camoflage really that good? They all flew off without landing any hits, ok, fine.

Approximately five minutes later, a half dozen angry AP prowlers decided to come inform me of their displeasure. When approximately fifty AP rounds missed me at under 50 meters, I realized that there was something odd going on (I did not even attempt to fight back, due to obvious buggyness. )

Several prowlers entered the water after me, but due to cannon elevation being greater then the lightning's submerged hitbox, they still couldn't hit me, nor could C4 placed directly on my hull - not when they put it atop the turret, at least. What finally got me? Tank mines, due to them sinking below the water, although they had to blow them with a grenade.

The moral of my story? These mechanics are still in full effect on hossin - stuff above the water cannot touch stuff under the water, unless it's an explosive effect that penetrates terrain anyway. Q spotting is also effected by this, at least in my own tests - this seemed to be inconsistent, most likely due to line of sight calcs occurring behind the scenes. These mechanics have been in the game since beta, and have worked in an identical fashion since release. Now that we have a continent with swampy terrain and water everywhere, I anticipate quite a few more similar situations.

IMHO, Anti Tank Mines are too powerful, and too small.

They used to be the size of pizza boxes, and i still got kills with them, they worked just fine, although they were too powerful.

Now they are the size of a postage stamp, they hardly render and they are still too powerful.

If tank mines will keep their giant explosive armor killing ability, then I would like tank cannons to retain their splash damage..
but SOE wants to nerf tank ammo into limp noodles.. then tanks should at leas have the ability to survive longer in the field.. ergo, NERF to tank mines! and while we are at it, C-4 is ridiculously overpowered against tanks.... maybe C-4 should disable a tank, take longer to repair the tank.. but it should not instagib the tank/crew.. .

Do people put mines on rocky/bumpy terrain much? I don't think it would be anywhere near as problematic as ammo, which needs to be where the infantry are. Anti-tank mines are usually on flat terrain or roads.

I think it'd be worth it to have proper minefields.

There's hardly a place where mines aren't being placed.

I'm really trying to think of examples when I've hit a mine on all the uneven terrain where ammo was difficult to place... and I can't.

Tanks just don't try to climb rocks or dive off ridges anywhere near often enough for it to be a worthwhile place for mines. Mines tend to go in well traversed places like roads, then less traversed places... the uneven terrain is last on the list before places tanks physically can't reach.

You'd be surprised ....

Oh I know Magriders do it. Still, you've got a higher chance of success with mines in choke points or between trees than on some random rock.

Not saying it would never be an issue, it just wouldn't happen anywhere near as much as ammo issues did.