I'll let the numbers speak for themselves. All values sourced from here. Not 100% sure if the charge times are the same as the lancer, not that it changes the situation much if they are lower. Can change the values easily in any case.
These numbers are wrong. 5 minutes of testing shows the DPS number is demonstrably false. Please stop with the misinformation. When you single fire, the max possible DPS is within 6% of the Raven.
Yo just letting you know you forgot to say a problem with the vortex, you've only got 30min to edit the post.
These numbers match the stats listed on the in game panels for the weapons so, unless you feel like posting an actual video or some numbers from a source you consider to be more reliable, I'm really not convinced that this is "misinformation".
I've posted a number of videos today. Here's one of shooting the side armor of a vanguard with all the weapons. I've tested sunderers. Takes 13 seconds at 100m with dual Vortex. Takes 12.5 seconds at 100m with dual Raven. You may get a few 10ths of a second difference in your own testing depending on how good you are with recoil control, fast clicking, lag, etc. In the time it took you to post this, you could test yourself. But yes, its much easier to accuse someone of lying. The Vortex's problem is weak infantry damage and shot velocity that should be higher than 400m. It's not AV DPS like you are trying to indicate. EDIT: My results were Rough TTKs: falcons: 15.9 ravens: 17.65 vortex: 18.93 charged: 27
Fraid not. As badname82 has been kind enough to illustrate, if you're trying to complain about dps, you're doing it wrong. If you have a actual problem with them, I'd like to hear it, as I am curious to the actual performance of the weapons.
Hey man, I never accused you of lying, just said that I wasn't convinced. Your video has convinced me beyond any doubt, so there's that. I still see the massive TTK disadvantage of actually using the charge as a huge flaw with the weapon, but clearly those damage numbers are either wrong or Lancer-type weapons have a different resist value than normal rockets.
its likely a case of it using pheonix style damage dispay, were the in game ui displays the anti infantry damage, not the AV damage. The pheonix display shows it doing 750 damage, which is its AI damage, however the pheonix does 2000 damage to armor, and 1700 to air. I would suspect a similar issue. edit: yeah, if you look at your source there, lancer damages are listed at 150 for level 1 and 750 for level three, which is their AI values, their AV values are 300, 750, 1500, so you can likely double your calculated vortex dps values.
Nice video, however it's missing something critical, performance at range. Remember? Those new AV weapons were suppose to be range options. With the Vortex you get damage drop off, a lot of recoil and cone of fire. You have to use the charge at anything past 150 meters to hit reliably and you will already have lost a lot of damage due to range degradation. The TTK for the Raven will stay the same however. Vortex is garbage for what it's suppose to do. Not to mention that hitting anything without zoom past 300 meters is more due to luck than anything else.
Yeah, for a "long-range" weapon, its accuracy is terrible. Spamming uncharged shots puts it at around the same DPS as the Ravens (as shown above) and maybe the Fractures (I'm not sure about this one, but they are fantastic weapons) , and this greatly lowers the precision needed to actually hit things at range. And I'm still not sure why they're so hell-bent on the charge mechanic.
The others aren't much better. The Lancer has recoil, which sucks, but I really didn't miss with it when testing on a stationary sundy at 292 meters so it is accurate. But at those ranges, with no zoom, its tough to hit anything in real combat regardless of weapon. The Raven TTK goes up 1 second every 85 meters...that's it's travel time. So range TTK actually scales far worse for the Raven as the Lancer-Lite has 400m/s so at 85m distance it's less than a 1/4 second travel time. Damage degredation kicks in around 200m...which is in basically it's maximum effective range because then you are just shooting at little pixels and squinting. So just going by stationary shooting (which is not the same as combat) the Raven seems better 0-100 meters, then again from 200-300 meters. In between is where the Lancer-Lite pulls ahead. It also can shoot past 300m with the Raven can't...but it aint hitting much. I had a 30 second Sunderer TTK at 292 meters. It was 13 at 30 meters. It needs faster travel time for sure at the minimum. The recoil could aslo be adjusted as most of that 17 second increase in TTK was due to waiting for the sight to reset (you can't just pull down to compensate as you will OVER compensate too easily). Sorry, it's just been several threads of the same thing and everyone kept saying "prove it" and I got a little tweaked. Everyone calculated DPS from tooltip...and the tooltip is pretty useless outside of where degredation starts and stops. Me I hate math so I just went right for the Test and VR Zones. Anyway you weren't the only one to get tricked by the tooltip. As an aside. It also looks awesome with ZOE. You're a purple lightning bolt tossing pony with that thing on...and it gives you a slight speed boost to running. I understand the anger at the limitations...but within 100m or so (where they are all best used even for being 'long ranged') it's DPS is pretty nice. It should do more than tickle infantry however as well. 1) Faster Velocity 2) More damage to infantry 3) Even less recoil Those would be a good leveling out I think.
At 100 meters Comets are superior to the Vortex in almost every regard. They deal more damage per hit, no charge up time, kill infantry faster, kill vehicles faster, have splash damage and no damage degradation. Without some kind of zoom function, an option to hold the charge longer, pushing out the damage degradation and improved AI capabilities the Vortex isn't worth using aside from having nice looking laser beams instead of plasma balls and more ammo which they neglected to add as they lowered the Comets damage and gave it a bigger magazine. The Ravens TTK at range only gets a hit for the first shot, after that it'll stay the same if you don't wait between shots. So even if the projectile travels for about 4 seconds, the following shots will hit at the exact same interval as they would at close range, so Raven TTK is travel time of first projectile plus regular TTK against the target. The Vortex damage degradation however gets added to every shot and TTK is negatively impacted by it. We've also been through a lot of this with the Lancer but especially the complains about it's AI capabilities could be ignored because as a HA you have a capable LMG at your side or even a decent pistol like the Commissioner. The MAX suit obviously requires different considerations in this regard as you usually have to carry two weapons of the same type to be effective at what you're trying to do. Some sort of zoom function and if it's only Lancer level zoom is certainly required.
The problems with the Vortex are myriad: Awful, awful models. Low accuracy over 100m thanks to COF & lack of zoom option. Stupidly low infantry damage, weak overall damage. Cannot hold charged shots like you can with the Lancer. Less useful at closer ranges than either of the other two empire-equivalent weapons due to it's low infantry kill time. The Vortex is beyond bad. It is quite possibly the worst weapon VS have ever been given. The charge mechanic should have stayed on the Lancer and not been re-used. It is uninspired, to say the least. The devs just don't know what to do with the VS. We need actual lasers, some real 'technology' instead of this laughable knock-off crap. It's been stated by Higby that coding lasers would be hard, but for crying out loud, DO IT ALREADY. Vanu players have had the short end of the stick since launch, and it's about time that changed.
After thinking about this stuff all morning as I was reseeding my lawn (not like I want to dwell on anything else in my life) I think the biggest problem is simply it's a pain to hit your sustained DPS with the thing. The problem would seem to be usability. Forget what it does to infantry and vehicles, it's just using the damn thing. It jiggles and shakes between rapid fire shots which is how you maximize DPS. Obviously if you charge that problem with controllability doesn't matter thanks to the time between shots. But your DPS plummets...and like Myka said you can't hold a charge as it automatically goes off. Considering how easy most Vanu small arms are to pick up and use, the pain in the rear nature of this weapon is puzzling. Besides the main advantage of the Lancer is it's near hit-scan weapon. Getting ambushed by Lancers is so deadly because they keep hammering you as you try to get back behind cover...you can't dodge the shot as it travels. Most rockets and launchers get one hit and then you have time to get out of dodge before the second one. It's vehicle guns and stationary turrets that get a follow up shot or two before it's too late. And then with the lancer,EVERY shot hits you until you are out of line of sight. When 2 or 3 dudes have this, everything they fire hits while with just about any other weapon the last volley or two splashes or wiffs harmlessly. But then the mini-Lancer has 400m/s which although fast is not nearly the same thing as what, 850m/s or so on the lancer? WTF? It's a pain to get follow up rapid fire hits thanks to recoil and the lesser velocity, or you charge up a big hit and lose the shot as the target hides.
It's extremely easy to hit targets ~350m with this Vortex as with the new TR's fracture. However, if you charge your shots, the VS may fall asleep trying to kill the sunderer while the TR's fracture can kill it in a few seconds,. The sunderer driver can go afk to use the bathroom, come back and move before you can kill it with the VS weapon.
I can't help but think the charge mechanic is not a TTK increaser. Its an opportunity item. So if you have the chance to charge up before hitting a moving tank, do so, as you'll slam him for more damage before he moves off. Stationary target? Just spam the button, moving target, charge up to get a good chunk of damage before he moves out.
