The infiltrator update: Optimisitc to crushingly disappointed.

I am not normally one to go on a tirade. I always give the devs the benefit of the doubt. I'd like to think I had some pretty level headed expectations since I seem to err on the more conservative side in the respect. But at this point I think optimism has just taken too many hits for me to keep it up at this point. I’m just having a too hard of a time with trying to find the bright sides with what has become of the infiltrator update.

After being delayed so many times I've been pretty excited over the last month. But the revelations, changes, and developments of the last week have all but diminished that, almost to the point of not caring anymore, which is disappointing to say the least. I feel a bit like a kid that waited all year for the vacation trip to the amusement park only to find most of the rides down for maintenance that week.

Pretty much all I'm getting out of the update at this point is the motion sensor.

Sure, new SMG and crossbows are a thing, but they're are usable by all classes so they can hardly be considered infiltrator changes. The SMG will be nice to help out the factions that aren’t happy with class specific versions, I guess, but the crossbow has its own issues and some of those have bits of the community whipped into a rage. There’s plenty of threads on that already. I won’t get into it.

It's the infiltrator specific additions that I find the most disappointment in anyway.

TL : DR
- The NS sniper rifle is just a re-skinned semi-scout.
- The NC ES rifle is now just an overspecialized bolt action in an already filled niche.
- Recent changes to stalker cloak makes its usefulness questionable.


NS Sniper ‘Scout’ Rifle
First, before I criticize this one, I want to give some credit where credit is due and compliment the art team on this one. This weapon looks awesome. Aesthetically it’s probably my favorite weapon. Unfortunately that’s all it has going for it.

This weapon was announced and advertised as the NS -Sniper- rifle, but just looking at the current stats, it’s very clearly a scout rifle.



Not only is it a scout rifle. It’s a mediocre one. The semi-scout was probably one of the less used weapons to begin with. The NS rifle trades velocity and reload time for a slightly better hip fire. It feels like it might have less bullet drop (as sniper classified weapons tend to) but I’ve only come to this conclusion because despite having 70 m/s less velocity than the empire semi-scout the bullet drop seems pretty similar over range.

So really the only real differences are a slightly better hip fire on a semi-auto, with the same drop as it’s scout rifle cousin despite having a slower projectile warranting a stronger lead anyway. Is that really a significant enough stat alteration to warrant an entirely different weapon? Personally, I don’t think so.

How to shine it back up:
First and foremost, decide what this weapon should be, as it has an identity crisis.

If you want it to be a sniper rifle, give is a substantial velocity boost. At least to 600 m/s if not more. Semi-snipers in general have lower velocity, and this would be a fitting NS alternative. You sacrifice stopping power for less shot compensation. Instead of kills generally being a head-body mix, this would need a definitive head shot double-tap to make it’s 2-shot-kill, but the weapon stats would be geared to making the easier to achieve.

If that’s not the route to be taken then rebrand the weapon the, ‘NS Scout Rifle’ because that’s clearly what it is in its current iteration. But it’s not even really worth fitting into this category either. Its stat differences are so minor and it lacks anything unique and about it to justify it as anything but a re-skin of the current semi-scouts.

There’s a golden opportunity here to make this a middle ground between the current semi and auto scouts. Maybe even a burst fire oriented scout rifle. I’d buy it.


NC10 Precision Pro changes just reinforce the NC trait problems:
To be fair, this wouldn’t be on the list if I didn't primarily play NC. I like all the other ES rifles.

What the current iteration of the NPP has become is essentially giving us a slightly sharper steak knife when what we really could have used is a fork. We already have plenty of bolt action rifles for all ranges, sure the NPP may be the ‘best’ among them by some people’s reckoning, but it’s just the most specialized in an already specialized field. That just builds the tower higher without anything to widen the base.

The infiltrator is already an overspecialized class. The arsenal is filled with weapons that absolutely excel at doing one thing but quickly drop below mediocre the moment you step outside their narrow area of expertise.

The new rifle concepts offered versatility something the class sorely needs. VS and TR are getting that. Sure, it might not excel in any one area but they can function in a MUCH wider range of engagements. And, once again, the NC faction trait comes back to bite us and pigeonhole our weapons right back into specialized roles, gutting versatility for the sake of ‘balance.’

With only a few notable exceptions, NC weapons do well in at their optimal engagement ranges, but outside of that drop off rather dramatically compared to other faction weapons. The ‘narrow focus’ trend has now continued into sniper rifles, as rather than trying to make a secondary fire mode work it was scrapped entirely to just becoming another bolt action.

So is this it? The new NC flavor is shotguns or nothing? Nothing else possibly could have worked? Does the NC trait really force such unimaginative solutions of just more over specialization?

I’m just so utterly disappointed with this decision, and it just reinforces a lot the anxieties I’ve had for a while. If not for the past year of time, certs, and SC I’ve already invested in my NC character that I would lose in doing so, I’d probably jump to one of the other factions at this point. I’d be happy to have either of their ES rifles over this.

Stalker Cloak:
In its current iteration I find it presence in the game questionable. I hope to any and all powers that be it’s just in a bad place right now and it’s not going to hit live like this.

The golden rule of sneaking and stealth is, “Move slow, stay low.” Staying with cover, and moving methodically, as the faster you move, the more noticeable you are. But this was just never feasible with the current cloaks. Because of their short durations vs. the size of the in game territories, to cover the necessary ground from cover to cover before the cloak dropped, leaving you exposed on open ground, one had to often outright sprint.

The hope was that stalker cloak would address this issue. The idea was sound, it would drain with movement and could recharge itself without turning off so long as you were still, but you had to sacrifice your primary to prevent stationary sniper from using this as a perma-cloak. This could have supported the methodical movement from cover to cover, keeping the lowest profile possible. It could have. But it doesn’t. Instead it just dives right into the same briar patch with a stupid grin on its face.

8 seconds of movement, regardless of speed or stance.
24 second recharge.
1 second of movement = 3 seconds of remaining still.

I really don’t feel like this is worth sacrificing a primary weapon for any longer. Rifles yes, but this doesn’t really give you anything more over the current cloaks for the close game.

What it should be:
I don’t know what technical limitations that have been run into, but the cloaks drain should be based on how fast the user is moving. At max rank, 8 seconds of cloak should be the drain at sprint speed, with the base jogging getting you 16 seconds of cloak time, and a full 24 seconds of crouched movement while under the effects of the cloak.

The cloak should be made to drain at different rates based on how the user moves, not just on the fact they are moving.

I’d say if this can’t be accomplished, just scrap the whole thing.


When all is said and done, I just feel burned that I waited this long and everything I'd hoped for is just not there or twisted into something else.

Don't forget how overspecialized the TR weapon is as well -- it's good only at medium range. It's the sniper that's not... even... a... sniper. Hard to say how it'll work in combat, but it has the same "throw bullets horizontally around your target" feel as the SOAS does as soon as you put moderate distance between yourself and your target. It's basically a very slight direct upgrade to the SOAS right now, which isn't saying much -- it's taking the worst rifle in the game and making it almost viable.

Just give it the full 24-second duration and 24-second recharge it started with. I've been running around trying to get medals on my secondaries to get a feel for them in anticipation of this cloak's release. I'll tell you something -- it's not easy.

Losing your primary weapon is a big deal. You should get a cloak that excites you in exchange.

SOE seems to be balancing this cloak as though they genuinely forgot that they're not letting you use your primary with it.

Its how i feel as well Plague, the fact they are looking to push this out this week combined with the seemingly lack of any progress on some of our major concerns like the stalker cloak being utterly rubbish, doesn't bode well at all for us.

Theres still time and i do hope that we will get through to the devs and get some of the much needed changes in; increase in duration of stalker cloak, giving the NS submachine gun its own traits, removing sensor bolts from other classes, turning down some of the daft giveaways/tells our cloaks suffer from (Cloak SFX range, no radar immunity when cloaked/still) tweaking the VS and TR ES rifles some more.

and last but not least fixing the numerous bugs with the class like head and hands not cloaking, wraith cloaking leaving rider exposed, decoy grenades not working as intended etc.

Yeah,

I rarely play as it is, been waiting for the Infiltrator update to provide some interesting enjoyment...but it's nothing but a huge nerf to stealth that ultimately nullifies half of the newly incorporated aspects to the class by weakening them to a state that leaves me with no other option than long ranged sniping.

Hacking wasn't addressed, our close range mechanics were crippled, and it's a practically worthless update that seems more like the attempt to kill off the Infiltrator rather than update it.

Not pleased at all, expect my playing time to drop even further after this.

Instead of going to full steam ahead and really improving the class SOE seem to instead taken the chance to nerf the infiltrator more

I still have no clue what the devs were thinking when it came to nerfing the stalker cloak. It was actually in a really good place in its first iteration, then the devs decided to nerf it despite the general consensus being that it was either fine, or that it still needed something more to be competititve against the hunter. I saw practically no one say that it was OP or that it was going to invalidate the hunter cloak, but the devs seemed to decided to do their own thing anyways.

I was really hoping that new NS sniper rifle would be harder hitting version close/medium range semi-automatic sniper rifles(Phantom, Impetus, KSR-35) with a bit slower fire rate, smaller magazine size, longer ADS time and reload speed, but faster bullet velocity,

Like a sniper version on the Commissioner, but with better velocity and range.

Now I just dont see a reason to ever use it over Phantom.

Thumbs up from me. I believe you really pointed out the main issues of this patch, I'd like to know your opinion about the crossbow alternative ammo. I believe that stuff is an abomination, it should never go to live server in its current state.

Someone should post this on reddit, that seems the only place where devs openly discuss players feedback.

Before the Stalker cloak was nerfed into the ground, I tried it out in a Skirmish on the test server. It wasn't OP, it wasn't great, but it was FUN. At this moment I'm not going to cert it at all. The nerfed version of the stalker cloak completely useless for anything but camping one spot and waiting to ambush whoever walks by, which isn't a fun playstyle. I'm very disappointed with SOE on this one.

Another thing that's really irritated me, is that on the update that is supposed to be geared towards infiltrators, they gave every class recon darts with the crossbow. Sure they are weaker than ours, but an engineer with an ammo pack can cover more ground than I can with his Crossbow darts. Why bring an infiltrator anymore? This really just feels like a huge kick in the balls for me, the supposed infiltrator update that invalidates our role even more.

If anyone wants to repost this to reddit they have my blessing, but I generally avoid the place. I probably shouldn't, but it is what it is.


Anyway, my opinion about the crossbow isn't anything special. It's something new to play and I'll probably use it once it goes live at but I need the real battle experience to really get the feel for it and see if there's anything there beyond novelty, and that doesn't come easy on test.

The ammo types are what seem to be causing the greatest community ire. They're interesting but a awkward. You trade killing power for utility. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, though some pretty funny exploitative nightmare scenarios have cropped.

Explosive bolts are tragically bad against infantry, aren't exactly armor killers, and against a MAX you'd probably be better just drilling it with your primary from a much safer distance. Not sure I'd trade a functional secondary for that, but to be honest I do like having the option. I expect the most lethal use of these will come from engineers detonating aggressively placed mine piles since there's no arming delay like on UB grenade launchers, and thrown grenades still aren't effecting mines. As a player fired projectile the bolt splash should still damage and detonate them.

As far as the recon bolts. On their own, they're pretty benign. The scan area is only 10m, with a good delay between pulses and they don't last particularly long. In combat they have roughly the same stopping power as a slinky has momentum going uphill. I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions with this being becoming a mainstream recon option. It would take upwards of 10 bolts to get the same coverage area as one max ranked dart, and with their short span that requires pretty much 100% dedication and an engineer to accomplish something one infiltrator can do as an afterthought. But it's still problematic for other reason.

It's the nature of the internet that there are folks who will try this anyway. This can't possibly be good for performance to allow that many scanners to be active at once, and it would turn the minimap into a complete nightmare from the scanning pulse graphic alone.

Reduce the scale of the pulse graphic to more accurately reflect the dart's scan area, and limit the number of bolts that can be active at once to 2 or 3 (a full clip) and then ship it. Honestly that's probably a fair cap to place on any recon asset.

THIS, THIS RIGHT HERE is what makes me so Mad. The Bolt Pro is a decent weapon, true, but This, A THOUSAND TIMES THIS!

Can I trade my weak versatility for a weapon that is actually worth buying?

Nowhere in the infiltrator update did it say the new ESSRs were supposed to be more versatile. People were assuming the devs promised them something they never did.

The original shotgun mode was horrible, it did less dps than the default pistols, while offered nothing except nerfs to long range potential. Buffing it would have been a balance nightmare. It had to go.

I am very happy with the new NC rifle changes. Those who doubt that it fills a seperate niche need to appreciate a 30% gained in velocity and what that imples for drop values and moving targets.

This thing is now an actual legitimate railgun with the most damage and velocity any infantry weapon can fire. It will be an amazing weapon, while still functioning as a sidegrade bcause it wont have access to a straight pull bolt or sup.

The nc is getting a GOOD trait fitting weapon instead of a gimmicky shotgun attachment. I couldnt be happier.

A 30% velocity buff is meh, any competent player will be capable of leading and landing shots with a 650m/s Longshot

This rifles niche is for players that can't land those shots.

Now the VS rifle is a semi and a bolt action in one whilst having unlimited ammo

I'm sorry I checked your profile, and guess what? You dont land every shot with a longshot. You don't land every shot with headshot. By your logic, how can even you be that competant? Do you know why? Because you are a human that guesses on the fly and predicts. Every once in a while you WILL miss the headshot.

If you think not having to adjust mildots or a cross hair for moving targets is not a huge advantage than that is where we disagree. Sure you can learn it incredibly well, but everybody misses due to judgment of lead and bullet drop sometime or another.

You can spout your it cann be done with perfect epeen skills all day long, I garuntee you will hit more shots with this weapon, I argue not worrying about compensation is a definite advantage.

Yes obviously I miss, no one has a 100% stat sheet unless they are aimbotting though a 80.9% headshot rate isn't bad and 46% accuracy isn't bad either as I'm hitting with every other shot and I go for a fair amount of moving targets.

I am not disputing that I will obviously get even better stats with this weapon purely by the fact it is effectively hit scan so I doubt anyone would have worse performance with it.

I would still prefer an interesting weapon though instead of a Longshot on steroids though

Since you've completely ignore the point, both here and in the other thread where you responded to my post on this topic:
EVERYONE KNOWS THE SHOTGUN WAS BAD. That's no excuse for just completely giving up on provide an expanded function. What they SHOULD have done was rebalanced it to make it work, and very likely failing that, provide A DIFFERENT OPTION. Not remove it entirely, especially in a class of weapon where the primary operation is already identical with all it's other variants.

Bolt actions were already the most specialized class of weapon, so the NPP brings NOTHING new to the faction. No new tactics, no new scenarios, no expanded capability, just a slight boost to the ease of doing so. Everything you'll be doing in a week with the NPP you're doing right now with a Longshot, and no new ground gets covered. That's not what we need.

You can be happy with your Longshot +1, but personally, I don't think we need YET ANOTHER bolt action when we have a selection of 4 already that perform the EXACT. SAME. JOB. in the exact same way.

I just wanted to say that this threads title sums up exactly how I feel about it.

I'm praying some changes like the cloak duration get changed as it goes to live.

It's not ignoring the point it just disagrees with yours. I like the idea of a slower basr with crazy railgun velocity. You like a variable mode.
When you say what they SHOULD have done, you mean what you wanted, an alternate mode or variance which was never promised, just assumed by the first shotgun hybrid version.
it would not have worked balance wise if they buffed it either, ill leave it at that but you can disagree.
Honestly it doesnt matter that you keep ignoring the obvious advantages it has over other BASR's but im sure thats past the point of getting through to you by the way you continue to insinuate they are the same thing. They have obvious differences that you refuse to admit are advantages.

What does matter is it has it's own niche whether you like it or not, has its own disadvantages and advantages, and is a comparable sidegrade to the longshot, instead of leaving nc with a gimmicky situational alternate fire. It gives nc a reliable new kind of bolt action, fits with the lore and it fits with balance, and the alternate fire didn't. Can't wait to get it.