Tank Nerf?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by DrHous3, Jul 2, 2014.

  1. DrHous3

    Hi Guys, normally I post as a Troll or some Satirical writing for entertainment or just being plain drunk, but this Tank change is something I wanted to discuss and share some opinions/experience.

    The NeedThere is a need for the tank nerf, i currently have 5k kills with the vangaurd and 4k kills with the lightning. However, i wouldnt propose direct changes, but indirect changes to tank, especially tank vs infantry.

    Current Status.
    Anti-Vehicle - Currently, I think all MBT drivers would agree that the anti-tank capabilities of each tank are pretty balanced. As balanced as its ever been. The fact is, the vang shield nerf has allowed the maggie's strafe ability and the prowlers anchor ability to actually shred through the shield. The change to the Vulcan, and using the fire suppression build on the prowler has allowed them to act aggrersive and take down Vangaurds with shield on (Providing all shots hit of the prowler).

    Anti-Infantry
    [IMG]The standard vanguard build holds the Heat and halberd/enforcer combo.Since these days, having the AP means that you will probably die from 3/4 heavy assaults due to the anti- tank build (the strong point of the vangaurd) needing to have ultimate aim skill to take down infantry in its masses. The heat-enforcer/halberd can take give some beating to infantry, but nothing of the ability of the maggie/prowler.
    [IMG]

    The C85 Cannister - i am not even willing to discuss this.
    [IMG]


    The Magrider had amazing anti-infantry abilities with its Saron Pre-Nerf. But that got hit hard, and right now it has the second best anti-infantry ability in its anti-tank build. However, the size of its FPC/PC can make up for some errors compared to the vangaurd small projectile size of Heat and AP. Moreover, its Magburn and movement capabilities give it some resistance (dodging shots) to Heavys.
    [IMG]

    The PPA build on the maggie, compiled with the VPC/PC/FPC can take on groups of infantry at time in range and in close combat, Its splash damage, magazine size and movement of the Maggie means that they can go in and out of combat, run away from MBTs that have anti-tank builds and did i mention, maggies can climb spots no other can tank/infantry normally can.
    [IMG]

    The Prowlers Anti-tank build (AP + Vulcan/ Halberd) + Anchor can be pretty effective against infantry. The fact that the lack of drop and speed increase on anchor mode, coupled with Each AP shot 1 Hitting infantry (Having 2 in one clip) means that this build can sniper infantry and vehicles. Moreover, the AP allows for mistakes, miss one shot, get that pesky LA with the other (One the Vangaurd cannot afford to do)
    [IMG]
    HE prowler + Marauder/Halberd. Yeah we all know that one, this has the ability to suppress bases and farm the **** out of infantry like no other vehicle. Currently the strongest KD save build, as run with Proximity and Stealth, and play as an infiltrator to run away just incase those fail, and youll never die. This is very ******* effective, compared to the HE of the vangaurd/ VPC (Due to its reloard, the enemy can use this to its advantage), however, the lack of it on the prowler... we have all seen this and felt its 'Heat'...



    Direct Nerfs

    Its obvious, through the numbers showing on statistics and the sheer frustration that players like Wrel talk about, that a direct nerf would be the obvious idea. And it would probably be easier for the developers to implement these direct changes, but i feel that this would be a terrible mistake. Just like what has happened to the harassers, liberators - the tanks will be obsolete in taking down infantry, as infantry will be stronger. Sure, a group of 3 heavy assaults working with comms can easily wreck any MBT (not sure about PPA), but this means that, 1 Heavy Assault, could potentially just wreck a tank through harassing it with a rocket launcher + healing it self (Which makes no obscene sense).


    Moreover, It does make no sense, that 1 AP shot ( A huge tank shell) cannot kill a space soldier, because Nanites (come SOE, Logic).


    Indirect Nerfs
    This is what i would propose.

    Bases
    This is a simple and effective route in my opinion, a few bases in Esamir (octagon ect..)/Amerish and more so Hossin have done this effectively. The idea is to make Bases Tank-UnFriendly. Players would be less fustrated being farmed in their spawn room by tanks (Adding simple things like roofs over spawn to points, and like mass bridges.
    Gates - simple gates in which dont let vehicles through, but gate-sheild diffuser harassers/sunderers.

    Massive Hills over spawn rooms - This is normally a PPA issue, where maggies climb hills above Spawn rooms and just dodge so much, while dealing suppressive damage, that can suppress entire platoons.

    Im not a game designer, infact im a trainee accountant/finance guy, but you guys know understand this concept im trying to portray.

    Changes To Tanks

    I would make certain changes to tanks

    Anti-Tank
    Increase the Splash damage of the Saron, but still making it a 3 hit kill to infantry (but give it some suppressive damage). The movement of the Maggie, gives a long term capability to survive thus dealing more damage, even though the initial one isnt much. Moreover, the Saron can burst damage but also sniper through tapping the mouse.


    Increase the Velocity of the enforcer, make it faster than the halberd, there isnt much drop in leading and hitting infantry. Decrease its magazine size to 6 but make that 6 do the same damage as the 8. Also incease its reload speed. to make up for the velocity. Do not nerf the 1 hit kill of the AP/Heat - it takes much more skill to hi shots at range/moving targets and players get punished for missing a shot.

    I would increase the range and magazine size of the vulcan, but decrease its damage or something along those lines. But the overall concept to the prowler should be that the AP should 2 hit infantry, not 1. So they should suffer the same skill adept as the Vangaurd/Maggie.

    Anti-Infantry
    Decrease the magazine size of the PPA to 15 and 30 to max magsize, also increase its reload. I would not Nerf the splash/direct damage.

    The Cannister can go a variety of ways.
    -An increase of magazine size by 3x, reduce its short range damage, but give it a higher damage drop of.
    -Give it splash damage, making it like the old air hammer (as it currently is **** agaisnt maxes compared to maurader/ppa).
    -Increase its damage by 3x (giving Maxes the same damage as a PPA/Marauder would). Seriously, right now 10 shots is 5 kills (excluding HA shield/Nano-weave) and that is if all shots hit, and enemies being at the right range.

    Again 5k vangaurd kills (auraximed the Heat/AP (find the HE boring) and Enforcer/Halber) but i have only ever used the Cannister to farm in one base, Snake Ravine Lookout.

    Keep one hit capabilities of HE/Heat.
    -One idea would be, that when anchored, the Vulcan and Marauder could get velocity/reload buff, while the HE/Heat reload speed/velocity would be nerfed (so you would have to lead more like the rest of us)
    Personally i like the Maurader the way it is, i do well with it, i auraxiemed it last weekend, in 2 days pretty easilyt, and i have alright aim/alright awareness.

    Infantry Changes
    -Max Flak will get not one hit, personally i agree with this, make the last cert like 1000 certs and infantry should deserve not to get 1hit by AP/Heat/Halberd on a tank/ Resistance to AI-Secondary.

    Moreover, Give something like Resist Sheild some tank damage resistance. Right now, Adrelanin sheild/NMG are the best to use, SOE normally change/nerf things so other aspects would be used. But when the Nano-Weave change happened, i feel that i have no use for my Max rank Resist Shield. But for its movement, i would give it some increased resistance to HAs against Tanks/ Projectiles.

    Implications - this would also would have fixes the lib issue, giving them some need again and infantry would have some resistance to them in the same way.

    Conclusion
    -Concentrate on indirect changes/nerfs
    -PPA comeone... that change i suggested is not much of a nerf
    -Give infantry more buffs rather than nerfing tanks themselves (Flak Armour)
    -Tank Vs Tank has been the most balanced as its ever been

    Thank you for reading






    • Up x 1
  2. firewolf

    Honestly im not much of a tanker so im not going to reply to the points on the Prowlers AP. But what your suggesting with nerfing the performance of HE/HEAT while locked down would make that a useless build.
    Lock down is already situational at best so why would I take it and make myself a perfectly still target just to get a WORSE performance out of the primary damage dealers?
    I would be all to have that ability actually effect the secondary weapons but having the only ability that locks you in place lose its benefits would make that ability VERY rare on those tanks that run HE/HEAT.
  3. Champagon



    Stopped reading there, this is just another lengthy "BUFF X, NERF Y AND Z" Thread
  4. DrHous3


    To Re-iterate, HE would have the lowest Velocity/reload incease, second being heat and AP staying the same when anchored. THis would mean that Prowlers would still do their AV role, however AI spam would be less effective (Making it fair). While still increasing the speed of the when anchored Maurauder.
  5. DrHous3


    Well my primary stance is that they should just change bases as some of them are amazing agaisnt HE/PPA spamming

    You never hear a vangaurd spamming cannister do you xD
  6. boobeb

    Yes, I found they Nerf too many things The game features is losing
    they also Nerf TR weapon T2 STRIKER
  7. Champagon

    Well I have seen it, as i have been spammed by canisters since i came back from hiatus. The PPA also is being blown way out of proportion by you guys on the forums. It's going to get the nerf hammer due to forums alone, we will see when the servers come back up
  8. uhlan

    Vehicles in a game claiming to provide "epic" game-play yet are continuously nerfed shows that vehicles simply don't "fit" into the present state of PS2.

    Whether it's the fact that the resource to kill ratio for vehicles is entirely flawed and that the bases are too many, too close and with infinite resource allocations only exacerbates the situation.

    Vehicles in PS2 are played like uber-suits of armor for infantry minded players for the most part. There are few big air battles, and even fewer tank battles.

    There is very little for vehicles to do other than farm infantry in siege mode. What with terrain/maps designed to flow-chart troops from one location to another and huge ammo load-outs making for ridiculous loiter times, what does SOE expect?
    • Up x 2
  9. Nasher

    The main problem with tanks in PS2 is there is no resource system for bases, so tanks can be endlessly spawned. The PS1 system was much better for balance tbh.

    Rebuffing non-guided missiles is something they could do, instead of nerfing tanks directly. The decimator is pretty pathetic compared to how it used to be. If it's damage was to unbalanced vs maxes and infantry, simply make it so it only explodes when hitting armour.
  10. SavageBacon

    I got to be honest, your boasting of your VG kills and the subsequent conclusions of your argument only convinces me that you've really spent 0 time in the other MBTs. Not to say it's entirely wrong, but you really don't understand Prowlers and it shows.
    • Up x 1
  11. axiom537

    Bases on Esamir are an example of what not to do...The Octagon in particular...I will agree Hossin has done it much better, I think they may have actually been listening to my suggestions. Bases need more obstacles not barriers, rocks, trees, trenches these all provide permeable barriers that allow Infantry to easily pass through or over, but severly restrict vehicles. These hinder vehicles movement ability, but do not restrict the movement of infantry and they help provide cover and break up LOS.

    Gates are also a mistake, we do not need more barriers. To contain and restrict the fighting. If a vehicle enters a base it should be at a disadvantage, because infantry can get up onto walls or shoot out of windows or from catwalks. We do not need to separate vehicles from infantry we need to design bases that give advantage to the infantry that control that base over vehicles that enter.

    I do not have an issue with a hill over a spawn room or a base in general, that is a feature that should be considered a non capturable point that you do not want the attackers to gain control over. However, The spawn room(s) should always offer protection for Infantry to exit in multple directions utilizing teleporters, catwalk, jump pads, trees, rocks, trenches, under ground tunnels, buildings...

    Vehicles do not need to be separated from the fighting, but as they enter the base or get closer, infantry and defending vehicles should have an inherent advantage to a certain degree... And I say to a certain degree, because we do not have a siege capture mechanic, so we can not make bases too defensible, otherwise we would never be able to rout the enemy.
  12. axiom537

    The main problem with tanks in PS 2 is they do not require 2 players to operate effectively...
    • Up x 1
  13. lothbrook

    I'd say the main problem is that tanks are made out of paper and infantry have too many options to wipe them out letting infantry players think they're entitled to destroy everything without any real effort.
    • Up x 2
  14. LIKE A BOSS!

    If you're driving a magrider you do need to have at least a competent gunner to be effective.
  15. Hegeteus


    Spammed by C85? Damn, I must've missed the circus :oops:
  16. AshHill07

    But I don't even play on the same server as you, how can I be spamming you with Canisters?
  17. ronjahn

    Maybe if infantry players tried playing vehicles for a change, they would understand how they work and why the balance is actually in the infantrys favor. There is no need to further nerf tanks.

    Playing in tanks will also help you learn how to avoid getting killed by them all the time. As a very experienced tank driver, and a player who also spends ALOT of time as infantry, I have absolutely no problem with getting killed by tanks. I am also exceptionally good at blowing them up solo with tank mines, c4, rockets to the rear. Maybe that has something to do with the fact that I understand their strengths and weaknesses, how to avoid them, and when to engage.

    Also having more people play in tanks would create more tank battles and would pull people away from camping spawn. If people learned to use the redeploy key to fall back from camped spawns to pull their own armor, it would be impossible to be farmed leaving your spawn. But the fact is that the majority of players will hopelessly try to leave a spawn over and over at clearly overrun bases and then complain that there are to many tanks camping them. Instead of whining for a nerf, do something about it.

    TDRL: the solution to tank spam is literally more tank spam. Get your heads out of your close minded ***** infantry only players and experience the full game.
  18. SacredRay

    You never see Tank Zergs on Amerish or the new Hossin. Instead of nerfing tanks into the ground, revamp the continents that promote brainless farming of infantry.

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