Agreed. Check this out also: The Weapon Data Sheet still shows the NC Gauss projectile speed to be 600. NO CHANGE. Either SOE lied, they don't have their **** together or the sheets aren't updated.
Well, thats not surprising. Anyways, T32 is very similar to T16 - same damage, same RoF and same recoil. The only real diffrences are that T32 has lower mag size, slighty lower bullet velocity, but in return slightly better accuracy and reload speed. Personaly I would go with T16 just for those extra 40 bullets in the magazine.
I use the T-32 Bull, with the 2x holographic sight, forward grip, soft point ammunition, and silencer. I have found this gun to honestly be my favorite so far. Even though I only have a 60 round clip which puts me in some tight situations, the increased acc, fire rate (from my last gun), and more than anything the reload speed make up for the difference. Compared to what I was doing I am able to chain kill more consistently as well as having a fighting chance against Max's. In medium to short range I find it to be extremely nice and very efficient with killing. The one down side to the gun is its long range, at least for me. I use the soft point ammunition so my bullet velocity is very low on a gun that already had lower bullet velocity than its counter parts, and while I have gotten kills with it long range they aren't easy to get nor are they ammunition friendly to get. If you stick to medium and short range I have found the T-32 to be my favorite thus far. If you like having the ability to compete in long range stick with a different gun.
It's curious, because if you look at his notes tab (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AuOojvNLMApVdEtIU1NKenEzNzZOSWNaanFqSUVxLWc&gid=22) he went over a lot of other weapons and found changes that are unlisted. It makes me think something like the following conversation occurred ; Dev 1 :"Our playerbase is ******** and thinks there's some huge disparity between the carv, orion, and gauss saw. What should we do?" Dev 2 :"Say we rebalanced them but leave them as is. They'll never notice." Dev 1:"Brilliant!" (spoilers : it worked) On topic : the t16 and t32 bull both seem to be downgrades by looking at the numbers. I hope they get fixed.
The numbers in the sheet are all pulled by formulas from the actual game data files (Everything from ClientItemDatasheetData on to the right), which are replaced every time there's an update.
I like the T16 and the T32 seems even better. People who think the CARV is "teh ultimate LMG" have apparently problems analyzing complex systems, so they rate weapons on TTK alone as if that was the only thing that mattered. My only complaint about the T16 is the lack of 2x reflex sight on a weapon that is clearly mid range oriented. Now that should be fixed. Everything else is fine.
I have the T32 Bull. I actually prefer the magazine size and it's rate of fire, plus it's reload speed is nice and quick (comparatively speaking). The one thing everyone should be aware of is the T32's lack of fire selection. It ONLY fires on full auto, so you have to use trigger discipline, even though it's quite easy to control. That being said, I've pretty much set aside the HA LMGs for the AMR-66 Battle Rifle. Except for certain circumstances (mainly extended CQBs), I find the accuracy, stopping power and "feel" of the AMR-66 BR to be right in line with my view of a Heavy Assault rifle. Mine is equipped with HVA, Compensator and most often the 3.5x scope, although I also have the 2x Reflex and 6x for "special occasions".
1) Click the link. 2) Click Patch Changes. 3) Scroll down to Dec 12. 4) Find the following: T9 CARV-S = Projectile Speed 620 → 600, Horizontal Recoil 0.2 → 0.225 T9 CARV = Horizontal Recoil 0.2 → 0.225 5) Stop spreading lies about the T32.
Neither of these changes are even remotely noticable. The T32 still has no purpose. Laughing hard at a guy who posts constantly about how he can "control recoil easily on any weapon due to insane skill" thinking that a minor increase in recoil changes anything at all about the weapon. I'm still killing people at 50m away by holding down mouse1 just like pre-patch.
So I think Friday, when I buy this one, I'll go compensator, forward grip, and 2X reflex. No ammo mods. I'm not a big fan of Softpoint ammo, and I'm looking for max accuracy, so no HVA. I tried to trial it but I didn't really get into a firefight of any serious caliber during the 30 mins. I really hope I love it, I'm looking forward to Friday and I appreciate everyone's opinion on it since the patch notes on it are so inaccurate. I hope they wait a while before they nerf it and release its replacement. I bet they are selling all sorts of TR guns now that the starting LMG was nerfed.
I'm laughing hard at a guy who just claimed that there were no changes and then proven that yes, there were changes, and is now lashing out over his own ignorance. I'm laughing even harder because I never complained about the CARV myself, as I don't even use the thing, which you should know since you seem to remember our conversation about my favorite gun the MSW-R. I only posted to prove that your assessment of the patch changes was false. I'm dying of laughter at anyone who hasn't run performance tests on the T32 Bull and seen that it is slightly weaker than the MSW-R with much better accuracy and attachments. Spreadsheets are pointless if you can't correctly use them, and you have proven your failure on this subject matter. So yes, NEWS FLASH, there was a change to the CARV, can people stop claiming the stats are the same? The CARV now has 12.5% additional horizontal recoil. Get used to it.
14% less ROF, 100 less total ammo and 40 less clip size than the Carv in exchange for slightly less recoil, slightly more accuracy, and a bunch of bad attachments that really change nothing unless having ineffectual ammo makes you feel better. Incredibly small recoil change that no one will ever notice, and now you're spamming the forums about how a weapon that just plain does less damage is better because it's easier to control (when the Carv is already trivial to control, and you claim that you have transcended the limits of recoil, so why does it even matter to you) keep in mind you have stated multiple times that an MSW-R with a sniper scope and a forward grip is a great idea.
This was added after my post. Maybe you weren't checking the data sheets as often as me beforehand? In case anyone quotes me, please realize that more information about changes have come out in the past few days. Earlier a lot of us perceived that the CARV(S) got stealth nerfs and now it is confirmed.
Still ******** that I proved you wrong about the patch changes? No matter, because as I said, performance tests with the T32 Bull prove something more than the stats are showing. If you read the other posts I've made on the subject, we're still trying to figure out what's causing it. It's possible the Bull has extremely low horizontal recoil, something you can't tell from looking at that spreadsheet. Whatever the case is, my outfit has proven, mathematically proven at that, that the T32 is outperforming every gun except the MSW-R at close ranges, and the MSW-R doesn't have a compensator or better accuracy. The T32 is a hybrid between the T16 and the MSW-R, a god of close and midrange combat, while the CARV is now the *WEAKEST* LMG TR has, again proven in performance examinations. There is so much you don't know and refuse to learn, all because you'd rather adhere to what you *THINK* you know about this game. Sniper scopes are 6x by default and 12x at best. I use a 3x scope on the MSW-R for midrange capacity because I actually go for headshots and it reduces my mouse movement for better precision. I explained that during our argument, but you have yet to understand that. The forward grip also reduces horizontal recoil, which is horrendously high and not balanced (pulls right) on the MSW-R, and the forward grip greatly improves its natural superiority in hipfire over other weapons -and- ADS accuracy rather than running around with a laser and being a one trick pony. I still use the advanced laser sight for my CQC setup, I use the forward grip with scope for a close-midrange setup. But all of that is moot at this point because an EVEN BETTER close-midrange gun has been released... the T32 Bull. In short, I no longer use the MSW-R with a scope and forward grip because the T32 has replaced that setup and performs miraculously at it. I'm not the only person to have said this before. It's not my fault that you broke and starving people can't afford a decent gun and desperately need to stick to the belief that the CARV is the be-all end-all weapon just because you haven't been able to experience the other ones with proper attachments. Your envy and grief are not my problem, and I don't care if you disagree with what I'm saying about the T32... I'll continue to say it for the people who want to listen, and ignore the people who don't. I quoted gunshooter, not you, and I just started posting here. I've known that a change was made even before the change was confirmed, I'm not one of those stubborn mules who calls placebo effect on people just because he hasn't seen the raw data to confirm the difference. The changes were implemented on Dec 12th, it should not have taken till after your post for people to have figured out something was different. Stubborn mules will be stubborn mules, and the people claiming everything was the same are in that category. There are no game value spreadsheets one can look up for modern military weapons, they are physical objects, not bits of data. Yet we know which ones perform better and at what ranges through performance evaluations. Actually using a weapon will tell you more than reading data off a possibly incorrect diagram, and the fact that people adhered to the idea that nothing was different only proved they didn't bother to test the changes themselves. They just ran their fingers like ignorant hotheads.
I'm running with 2xreflex and forward grip and its my fav LMG now(only been 2 days). I don't seem to have any problems with recoil so I'm going to get HVR/suppressor combo next and see how I like it. If I don't ill just pick up the compensator and just run stock ammo.
I just have to comment Kyutaru. Why do you think the forward grip affects hipfire? Please explain. That kind of obvious misinformation throws your entire argument into question. The MSW-R is horrible at mid to long range because of its projectile speed.
Forward grips reduce recoil, the MSW-R has horrendous rightward recoil, and forward grip allows you to control it better while hipfiring. It's not misinformation, you're just failing to separate the hipfire assocation of the laser sight attachment from the accuracy effect it provides and thinking that excludes other attachments from benefiting hipfire. Forward grips will help you control the MSW-R recoil even during hipfire, and it has a massive amount of recoil to be controlled. I use it because it helps both hipfire and ADSing. Considering I use soft point ammo, my MSW-R is even lower on projectile speed. It doesn't make a difference for me, mid-long rang is for snipers and times when the game isn't failing to draw enemies. My role, my game, my abilities are in CQC and I stick to short-mid range. I played Tribes for four years, I know how to lead a target with a slow projectile.
Acknowledge on the forward grip, I had thought the description specified during ADS only. Why are you not using the laser in CQC? Softpoint MSW-R is useless outside of 30 meters.
