Sunderers are obnoxious

Can someone explain why Sunderers are so extremely strong?

They are a mobile spawnpoint, not a tank.


Why the hell can a stock Sunderer survive 2 C4, an underbarrel grenade and 3 explosive bolts for sake?

Solo players are not supposed to take a Sudnerer out single handedly?
All my teammates are too busy being on the point or in the spawn, someone has to actually do something, right?
Please, explain to me why a Sunderer would be supposed to survive a solo player without any kind of actual effort into defense?
Yeah, just let me put that Sunderer here and go away, noone can kill it anyways.
Why put any kind of effort into Sunderers, they just give my faction an advatage anyways, why actually work for that...

I am very fine with Armor and Shield Sunderers surviving more long range damage, someone actually put certs into it, but not as damage as they do right now.
Armor Sunderers with the health of the current stock Sudnerer, fine.
Tank attacks can literally simply be outrepaired over long times.

Why do Sunderers have to stand over every single Infantry attack but mines in case of the deployment shield?

On top of that, why are Sunderers better than any tank?

A single dual Fury Sunderer can take out a fully manned AP MBT but costs less than half of it.
Walkers are better than a Skyguard for any range over 200 meters, it even has two of it what puts it over the MBT again.
Also Sunderers can equip anti infantry weapons as well, what again puts it over the Skyguard which is less suited for AI self defense.
Sunderers have way more health than Lightnings, especially with the armor, but they do way more damage for the same ressource price.


How in the world is this balanced?


Yes, I am a bit pd off...

You forget that it's 12 troop transport. For what reason it should be fragile?

If you wish to take out deployed Sunderer on your own:

1. Get an Engie, drop 3 mines under it, throw a sticky grenade
2. Pull an AV MAX

Not sure what you mean. 2x C4 eventually kills an undefended stock Sunderer, though it takes a long time to burn down, ~70 seconds.

2x C4, underbarrel nade and 3 explosive bolts should destroy a stock sundy in under 5 seconds since first instance of damage, if you do everything right.

Lots of things can go wrong, though. C4 sometimes bugs out and UBGL only detonates if target is further than 10m, and for maximum speed you have to detonate C4 with UBGL, but you have to not hit the C4 itself, otherwise the UBGL nade won't damage to Sunderer. Lots of subtleties, and that's not even talking about deployment shield or blockade armor or repairs.

It's cost ?

That being said I wouldn't make it more fragile .. I'd double it's Resource Price.

Max shield sundy takes 2 av nades 2 x c4. A heavy can easily take out a shield sundy.

it used to be 2xC4 kill but, people were ruining the farm.

And now Sunderers are the ones Farming.

I do expect the sunderer to withstand some considerable damage as its meant to be like an APC and with the numbers a single individual HA or engineer to take out a sunderer would just be broken.

I suppose another option is to increase the effects of damage similar to BF series where tanks get crippled and unless repaired, witll slow to a crawl and face being destroyed unless repaired. It should hopefully stop massive armored columns just simply going further away (making their firing more inaccurate) or leaving sooner (so they can;t sustain fire for long periods unless they get picked off collectively)

I suppose sunderers would have a similar problem, but deployed sunderers spawn systems are also damaged and temporarily can't spawn unless repaired. Its a minor change for sunderers as usually an engineer will repair the sunderer and carries on as normal or the sunderer is under sustained fire and its on its last legs anyway. They still can be immobilzed, but being faster then other EST they should be able to get away with it.

Such a mechanic is already in the game, vehicles on fire are much harder to maneuver.

I dunno, all the tanks that are smoking or on fire seem to have no problems driving away at full speed with no ill effects. Some do explode after awhile, but i'm going to have to take your word as i rarely pull anything more then a flash to travel around. I would like to see greater disabled effect though.

Vehicles when on fire do slow down there's only really two points where one could speed up, ether they had fire suppression and killed the fire or they had turbo or magburner and used it.

if they really wanted to solve the battle bus issues (not that I think its that big of an issue) they simply need to make the sunder only that durable when deployed as a spawn point. it would retain its durability to keep a fight going when being a spawn point, but have less staying power on the move.

This game was worse off when a single determined infantry player could easily halt a good battle because deployment shield didn't exist.

doing so would probably make it redundant and people would use the deploy shield instead. IMHO they should cut blockade armor's resistances in half while it is undeployed so they only get full endurance when deployed when they actually need it for self defense and point defense.

thats kind of what i was trying to get at, you just put it better.

Whos fault is it for NOT defending the sunderer?

Sundies are not tanks nor do they take damage like one. They have 45% damage resist vs 63% of MBTs meaning they take 66% more damage. They are also larger which makes them easier targets.

No, its a 3(12) man vehicle.

Tell them to stop cert farming or find better teammates.

I've had no issues destroying a sundy unless severely out numbered and out coordinated.

Use AP, it takes down a sundy in a few hits regardless of repairs. If there are THAT many repairing, that means you are out numbered, kill the engineers.

Only if the Tanker and Gunner are terrible. Sorry this is a case of player error, not balance.

One Walker is NOT better than a Skyguard. Two Walkers is slightly better, but takes two people to utilize. Two Skyguards > Two Walkers.

This I don't even... Skyguard is AA not AI. And walkers can't aim down to hit infantry. Dunno what you're trying to say.

Sunderers have 4000hp
Lightnings have 3000hp

Sunderer Armor is 45%
Lightning Armor is 55%

Sunderer EHP is 7273
Lightning EHP is 8571 (front) or 7143 (side/top)

Way more health? 130 is way more? And that's from the side or top.

I think that sunderer should be very durable. It not necessarly needs that much fire power.

Read:

http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/Vehicle_armor_and_damage_resistance

That's where I got my values from, lightning armor is a typo in my post. Do the math, it adds up for the EHP.