[stupid question] how does high RoF help in cqc?

a gun with less rpm and more damage per bullet will hit less indeed, but will compesate by dealing more damage per hit...so how is it that a high rpm weapon is considered more suitable for cqc?
if you test on a target two different guns (with same dps but different rpm/ damage per bullet) you will have more damage with a gun and more damage with the other one, depending on the interval of time the target is exposed to your fire. there would be inter-times where the high rpm gun did more damage, and intervals where the more damage per bullet gun would outdamage the first one. so, even if you are hipfiring while turning around super-fast and you happen to hit an enemy player why should you think a faster firing gun is better? depending of the amount of "exposure time" the opponent will take more or less damage from a gun or another xD
for this reason I really can't see any advantage of high RPM guns, especially in online gaming, where lag makes you waste bullets on bodies or waiting for the server to notify you are dead. I also can't see how missing with the RoF gun could be more "forgiving"...I find it quite balanced actually, with both guns you have to be accurate only when the bullet is leaving the barrel, which is less often the lower the RoF is, but with the high RoF gun if you can correct your aim after only one bullet misses you lose less dps.
I know it is a stupid question since everyone is so natural about this, so I'm probably missing some obvious factor

Time to Kill Rate + Recoil influence how many bullets actually hit the target. Trust me, you land every shot from a high RoF and your chances of survival go up. A weapon can make up for lower RoF with damage, but missing + weapon accuracy factor in. High ROF weapons also allow less exposure time to the enemy, which can be very useful depending upon the situation.
Lag isn't a problem in some games, like Battlefield 4 now. Planetside 2 is different, all kinds of weird whacky things go into play. I can't explain why, but I have a more direct connection to west coast from east coast then east coast to east coast.

Also: You should always try and be Aiming Down Sights for the stat boosts with any weapon. Rarely do I find myself hipfiring. Make your Hipfire/Ads/Scope 1:1 using a calculator online (There's a site that has the conversions) and the only reason you'll ever hipfire is either shotgun (To manipulate the cone of fire) or extreme panic. It's all a stat boost.

Higher rate of fire allows for more missed shots, as the damage lost per bullet is minimal. High damage slow-firing weapons have a much smaller margin for error because every missed shot adds significantly to the time to kill.

Doing your math right, the NC guns that do 167 damage or 200 damage shoot so slow they do less damage per second than high ROF weapons. It doesn't -have- to be that way, but it is that way in PS2. NC have the weakest arsenal in terms of dps in almost all side by side comparisons. (At best, they equal) but nthing the NC has in the LMG department matches the Orion, Carv/MSWR. People say the Anchor, but they're completely wrong as the Anchor still does the 167 x 600 or less RPM, which means it's dps is significantly lower than the other comparable LMGs that fit the same role.

excuse my lack of technical language lol, also I'm not english mothertongue <_>

but if a weapon loses a bit accuracy each bullet it fires it means lower RoF weapons will lose accuracy less often, so even if those weapons have a bigger "accuracy loss per bullet" factor it doesn't mean they will be less accurate and miss more.
btw could you explain your line about the exposure time difference?

I hipfire a lot only because I use lasher and chaingun as main weapons xD the setting was just an hypothetical example (probably not the best) in which we could test cqc effectiveness.

yeah but I could counter-argument by saying that having less damage per bullet makes both missing AND hitting less critical dps-wise, so yes you lose less if a bullet misses, but having more RPM makes so that you lose more bullets and dps every time your aim goes off the target.

Because Cone of Fire makes some bullets miss.
The more bullets you send down the line, the more chances for getting hits in the same time span.
It's why CQC weapons can be just as comparable to several "medium long range" guns, except they are also better in CQC.

how does low rpm and high damage per bullet makes a weapon's ttk longer? saw has same ttk as carv afaik

ok but isn't it also true that the more bullets you fire and the more chance you have to miss? lol I'm starting to feel stoopid xD

Yes, that's true. But it is far better have 10 chances to hit for a bit less damage than 6 chances to hit for slightly more damage.

RPM isnt the king factor of a CQC weapon its just one of the factors like COF and damage tier. For one to argue that its the most important forgets that the king of SMGs is also the slowest firing.

I see what you mean, but what if those numbers were changed to match guns with same ttk? I mean, take gauss saw and carv for example, if I have the time to shoot just one bullet to the target then the saw will outdamage the carv, but when the interval gets bigger and I can fire two bullets with the carv it will outdamage the saw, which would not be able to shoot its second bullet yet. the dps winner is one or another depending on how much time you have to fire. the number of bullets means pretty much nothing if the ttk is the same.

There is also the wild-card that is headshots, which this guy on reddit explains pretty well. https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside...uestion_how_does_high_rof_help_in_cqc/cuxyql3

yes to that! even if the 167-600 damage model outdamages faster firing guns when headshotting so I don't know if it should be considered really a bonus of high RoF weapons

Because no-one has 100% hit rate 100% HSR unless you're a cheater.
Things are going to miss and things are going to sometimes line up right. You must of had the times when you're shooting at someones head and they die really quickly, but you've also had the times where you've missed the head a lot as well and it takes far longer. Having more bullets per second helps in the 2nd and it happens a lot more than getting a perfect HS chain.

sorry but, again, I really don't think this is true. only more accuracy makes you hit for more damage...it has nothing to do with how many bullets the gun sprays in the air as long as we are comparing same headshot ttk weapons.

this guy on reddit nailed it better than me
"Missing a 200 dmg bullet vs a 125 sounds like a big deal until you realise than accoutning for accuracy you probably miss nearly twice as many 125 dmg bullets as you would with a 200 dmg/500 rpm gun"

and thats how it works. if you have the same accuracy on a gun that fires 100 dmg bullet at double the rate of a gun that fires 200 damge bullets it means that you do the same damage with these guns, but one will miss (and hit) with double the amount of bullets.

It is more that each miss costs you less, on balance, with high RoF, where as high DPB doesn't really give you any advantage (all other things being equal) until you move into 1 shot kills.

Quantity can also make up for lack of quality.




Orginally the Flinch mechanic in PS2 used to massively favour RoF, it doesn't since it was fixed, but still arguably favours RoF slightly in terms of CQB (all other things being equal).

And you have to remember with lag & clientside etc., you're never going to have remotely perfect accuracy all the time (or even most of the time) without using an aimbot or whatever anyway. Even ridculously good players won't break 40% overall.

But it's not a huge deal, it is perfectly possible to have balanced high RoF and low RoF CQB weapons since the Flinch fix.

It isn't though, because of the law of large numbers, the more you perform an operation (in this case a bullet hitting it's target) the higher the chance it has of happening over the course of the experiment, even though each attempt still has the same chance of happening. This means that in this case, the faster your bullets fire the more times your performing the operation and the more chances you get to land a hit.

That said it is still up to chance and many other factors, you could land head 5 shots in a row, but you are more likely to not get that. The faster firing weapons have to get more shots in a row, but they perform the operation a lot faster and thus the chances of it happening increase. RoF isn't the be all end all in CQC, but it does help.

Generally accuracy for CQC is better with lower damage/higher rof weapons, that is they are easier to get and keep on target, ie Carv/Orion vs Saw, at longer range these weapons have more Shake which can cause issues as opposed to the higher damage weapons which have less shake.

Also fairly sure in a straight up TTK 143/750 beats 167/600 and 200/500, ie both parties and aim fire at same time and neither misses a shot, the difference is low but pretty sure it's there.

EDIT:
Anyone know how accurate this site is:
https://ps2model-axiom.rhcloud.com/

High RoF guns are MUCH less punishing when tracking targets up close, even when they deal less damage. this is specially important if you are trading fire with the target and not just shooting at it. 200 damage guns DO NOT have the same tolerance to flinching than other guns do. if you blindly compare a 125 damage gun to a 200 one you are doing it wrong. a single hit when you are dropping a burst with the SAW means that you will miss 2 out of 3 shoots.

if you have the chance to aim then sure, a SAW will be brutal on CqC, but any other gun will be so as well.

The best place to see this is not really among heavies, look at NC medics instead. a gun like the Reaper DMR is a SAW on steroids, it should completely rule on any engagement, and it partially does (its the best medic gun at mid ranges IMHO) yet its SO punishing at CqC that it will leave you punching a hole in the wall.

a single bullet miss and you will die, 100% of the time. even if you are going up against someone who misses 3.

just roll an NC, go to the vr room and use the Reaper. 5 minutes shooting at stationary dummies and you'll be tempted to come to the forums to ask for the reaper to get nerfed. it feels ******edly OP. but take it for a spin and see for yourself just how punishing it is. and remember it used to be even MORE punishing before since its magazine was even smaller.

now run with a GR-22 or Carnage and tell me if your CqC performance didn't improve...

same with engineers and lights, probably even more noticeable, with the AC-X11 and the GD7F. one is a pure NC gun similar to the Reaper and SAW, the other is pure TR, with 845 RPM and 143 damage. getting hit with a 7F feels like being hit with an auto shotgun, no wonder people often ***** in /yell about the 7F.

but past the 20m mark you cant hit the ground reliably... so there's that.

Double post