Stock Lib now take THREE Titan-150 AP Rounds

TR main cannon at default without lockdown has a higher velocity than the magrider. There is nothing wrong with the prowler it is just fine.

Except what you're attributing skill to seems to merely be exploiting a particular weapon working in a weird and clearly unintentional way.

But if you think the Dalton doesn't need to be reworked so that it's not the answer to any and every threat then i really don't see a worthwhile discussion coming out of this back and forth because something is just fundimentally wrong with a versatile weapon that has a low TTK vs any target. I really can't see any worthwhile reason to keep it as it is.

Having a resist vs AP was the right choice as far as i can see, but they just went a little too far with it. Unfortunately a lot of people around here see everything in black and white and not as a spectrum.

I've shot down several Libs with my AP Prowler since the patch and I have to land twice as many hits. How about you go one-shot an ESF and stop crying about Liberators?

It's not weird or unintentional. In any other game, tanks will simply wreck aircraft big or small if they manage to connect a round. In Planetside 2 it's a bit harder because it may take an additional round or two from the TTK for most things being higher in this game than most others to allow for more strategy and larger fights. But in general, you don't fly aircraft in the line of fire of a tank. Another difference though is that other games have a much lower tank turret traverse speed than this one does. About half the rotation speed or less, but that's more of a different issue.

I don't have a problem with them giving Libs composite armor to allow them to take THREE (2.99) Titain AP shells to destroy. If they want the armor to stay in the fight longer with longer downtime for repairs that's perfectly fine. It's an exchange of repair on the go for more effective health. Hitting a lib 3 consecutive times with a Titan AP cannon isn't easy anyways unless the pilot has a reaction time of about 30 seconds.

Even prior to the changes, hitting a lib usually meant there's a small chance that they would either die in the next couple shots or more likely they will fly over to you and wreck you if you don't have AA cover. Usually you hope for it will make them leave the area so that you can move more freely. A Lib is such a high priority threat to a tank (far above anything else in this game) that any good tanker will still take that chance to clear them out if they can. The same mentality can be seen with infantry vs tanks or maxes. They will try to take out a tank or a max even though there are other risks involved or they have a very poor chance of actually succeeding at killing their target. Usually at best they can only cause them to retreat to recover.


Given that a lib's TTK against a tank can be as low as >2 seconds, yet costs 33% less I don't see why they would require or expect that a tank not be able to fight back at all. An ESF costs 45% less and can end a tank pretty fast as well, (not as fast though) but the solo play can be risky with a chance of being hit with a tank shell depending on how you fly.

And with regards to the Dalton, it was nerfed fairly well this patch. It's no longer an end-all infantry gun and now does less damage to ground vehicles (only gun in the game that does splash damage to vehicles, which was the main thing nerfed) and now doesn't do insane damage to larger aircraft. It's more like the HEAT round of liberators now which is an OK place. Granted though, I'm not a lib pilot so I can only comment on the results I've seen and of others using it and what they have said. I would like to know how lib pilots feel about the gun now.

I think your focus might be more in regards to ESFs though, which should be destroyed with 1 round of any AV type, whether it is dumbfires, Daltons, AV turrets, or tank rounds. That's not the discussion of the thread though.

Ahahaha funny guy.

I'm sure you are on the same level as Klypto for tanking... Not really.

The skill ceiling for tanking is pretty low. I've plucked ESF's and Libs out of the air with Decimator shots, an AP round is child's play by comparison.

If a lib comes up behind, I'm not going to let it sodomize me with it's tank buster. **** THAT!!!

Oh wow, I am soo impressed. Oh please, hold me dear before I lose consciousness from watching such unique talent...

Yeah, you're a funny guy. Like I said, tanking wise, you aren't on his level and if tanking is child's play, I rather not see your talent infantry wise.

I think you mean the skill floor for tanking is pretty low. Just about anyone can pull a tank and kill a bunch of infantry without really knowing what you are doing. That's why tanks have been such a problem. Even stock vehicles are a high threat to infantry if played right.

Now of course, once you get into tank vs tank it starts to get a little funky with the higher cert, planning and skill requirements that makes entry into that field a bit tougher than jumping into it with stock.

if only... skyguards were in need of a buff before, now more than ever. one dalton hit and you better run. and if you get hit directly on top or behind you are dead. luckily since as an AA you are forced to move to a nearby base , most dalton hits will land on you on an arc, so you can force the lib to hit your front.

but even so, if he sees you, you better run. he can fly to you and kill you, regardless of how much fire you put on him on his way to you.

and burster maxes are a joke, not only you must invest an extra 1000 certs, even if you do you still cant deter with a full clip, you have to unload two to even make the pilot think of moving away, and 3 clips to make him smoke.

many times i have been shooting non stop to a liberator hovering over a base killing tanks and infantry before some smoke puffs started popping out, he then aligned out, got some speed, and activated the afterburner, a minute later he was back in the carnage.

the only way to deter is to have 3 burster maxes with extended clips, and that's if you have complete control over the base, otherwise the lib can change his entry vector and still bomb to his hearth content.


they should just roll back all lib changes, and give them a good speed and maneuverability buff... libs should be tank killers, fine. but they should resemble attack helicopters, not flying fortresses of doom.

The problem with 'encouraging' players to pull dedicated AA? The aircraft can simply fly away to another fight, leaving those players with useless anti air weapons. I cant trade in a Skyguard for an AP Lightning. Im stuck with a tank that has become an expensive taxi.

I used to like Skyguards a lot, but I found that a competent lib crew (2/3) can easily kill a Skyguard before the Skyguard can kill it. Ive seen the argument 'its a 3 man vehicle' too many times. Its apples and oranges. Its an aircraft that can fly wherever it wants to. It only costs 50 more resource points than a Skyguard does. The ability to simply fly away before anything can kill you is worth far more than the resource cost of a single grenade.

If I can hit an aircraft 3 times with Python AP rounds, I deserve that kill. Thats not easy unless they are hovering - in which case they deserve a penalty for their mistake.

No, I meant the skill ceiling. If anything, bad tankers are punished pretty harshly on a regular basis. Tank mines, C4, Rocket Pods, and the Lib's tank buster nose gun are extremely unforgiving to new players. However, once you have a general grasp of tanking stratagems, there's not a whole lot of room for improvement. In fact, I would say the only true improvement from that point is becoming more and more acquainted with the map lay out of the areas you'll be fighting in. Then again, that applies to every aspect of Planetside 2, not just tanking.

I dunno. I think playing someone takes a lot of skill.

There's a real simple way for you to resolve this dispute. Both of you hop on the test server with a fully certed MBT of your choice and whoever loses shuts up.

Back on topic, I agree this nerf was unnecessary and uncalled for. Did you see Lib pilots complaining about dying to MBTs? No, because it's very, very rare - much more rare than, say, an ESF dying to the dalton - a similar case of weapons being used creatively and skillfully outside their intended role. It makes no sense for aircraft to survive multiple direct hits from heavy anti-tank munitions. Nor does it make sense balance-wise to DOUBLE the time to kill from an AP Vanguard (first shot takes 0 reload time) when pre-patch a skilled liberator would already utterly wreck MBTs. Revert this change ASAP.

So instead of trying to resolve a moderate peripheral debate through discussion, you'd have us go to the test center and do a 1v1 tank battle where I would either be a) at a disadvantage because Prowler vs Vanguard is laughable, or b) piloting a tank I am vastly unfamiliar with. You would have us do this to try and flesh out our ability to function in a game that boasts massive scale combat of which the fulcrum is combined arms, by pitting us in a vacuum.

I mean no offense when I say I couldn't possibly think of a bigger waste of time.

Sounds to me like you know that Tanking has a higher skill cap than you are willing to admit and are now trying to avoid fighting someone who is incredibly close to that cap and would no doubt invalidate your claim. If piloting a tank that you are unfamiliar with puts you at a disadvantage, the skill ceiling cannot by definition be low or you could be near-perfect with it in no time.

I had figured that my response would most likely be met with puerile taunting. Regardless, the idea of me being able to adapt "in no time" is highly ambiguous. Could I adapt to the Vanguard within an hour or so? Yeah, more than likely. Is that several multitudes more time than I'm willing to spend on an internet pissing contest? Well yes, yes it is. Does this change the fact that a 1v1 head-on fight holds very little relevance against the back drop of Planetside 2's epic, frantic combat? No, no it does not. It's the reason why the Scythe's hover-dueling capabilities remain intact and why the Vanguard shield is still able to absorb more damage than another MBT can spit out during its eight second duration.

Also, I'd like to note something about the edit you made in your opening post:

Liberator pilots complaining about dying to AP rounds is what got the Prowler's anchor mode nerfed. So, there's that.

Actually there were not that many threads about Anchor Prowlers taking down Liberators. The nerf also didn't really change that either. My guess is they did so Prowler's couldn't snipe infantry as well from a distance and so Prowlers couldn't shell tanks from really far away as well.

The patch notes LITERALLY said they nerfed anchor mode because it allowed the Prowler to be too effective at an anti-air role.

Found your profile.

Confirmed as angry pilot spewing nonsense.