[Suggestion] Spitfire feedback

After playing with the spitfire for about an hour and doing some research about its stats, I feel that in its current state it is under-powered, at least for 1000 certs. The main trouble I had was thinking of what role it could fill. I tried putting it right behind shields, in open areas, on the ends of hallways, in generator rooms, on top of stairs, on roofs, etc.

The first thing I noticed was that it died VERY quickly. I thought putting it on one end of a small battle field would help lay down some cover fire so our boys could advance towards the other side - even if it didn't do much damage, it would still help discourage enemies from popping out so we could move forward. I imagine it would have done that had it not shortly afterward exploded from the crushing power of about 10 bullets. Another time I placed my turret in a generator room. By this time I didn't expect much but I felt it would at least have some intimidation factor to someone walking around the doorway. Eventually someone waltzed through the door and started shooting my turret, with me behind repairing it... or rather watching the repair progress circle go from full to empty in barely 1 second, after it fired I think 2 rounds.

I suppose it might be overpowered if it took as much time to kill as say a flash, especially if a squad of engineers decide to spam it in a chokepoint.... but the thing is, even if 12 engineers spent 12000 certs and their turret slots setting up 12 turrets, their offensive capabilities are laughable. They have VERY low dps and terrible tracking, and on top of this they take up such a large area that you can't fit more than one or two on top of a staircase or in an entrance way, so stacking damage is hardly possible... plus they do not avoid tk'ing, even shooting other turrets for the sake of shooting an enemy behind it.

The only thing they really have is perfect aim, in that, as far as I've seen, when nothing is in the way it will hit the target. That of course is a very valuable characteristic that can throw off the balance of the game and cause a lot of frustration if not carefully limited. So I understand the need to be very careful with the turret's stats. My thoughts on this are to either 1. Buff the damage or rate of fire a little so that it becomes worth at least some attention in a fight, OR 2. increase the hitpoints so that it takes more than a few stray bullets to destroy one, OR 3. lower the cert cost, to maybe 500.

If you buff just the damage, it would be more like a land mine where strategic placement would allow you to catch someone off-guard - not kill them immediately, and not make it impossible to proceed, but require them to actually address it with a more tactical approach, rather than just shooting back at the turret which may cause 100 damage before they kill it.

If you buff just the hitpoints, it would fill more of a suppressing fire role. Alone it wouldn't cause too much trouble but would be a useful addition to any side during a small skirmish, requiring a more tactical take-down rather than half a clip's worth of attention. Rockets and grenades would be efficient ways to counter, which I feel is fitting since engineers can only carry one turret at a time, so spending one grenade on it seems like a fair trade-off

Lowering the cost alone I think would also make it worthwhile. I feel it's about as worthwhile as adding an attachment to your carbine - could be fun or useful in certain circumstances, but I find the alternatives are generally more worth it.

Anyway that's my feedback so far

I haven't had a chance to have any of mine fire a shot in anger yet, but...it's too big. Like, way too big. I guess I remember the PS1 Spitfires which were fairly small, but then again you could lay an entire field of those things. Considering the PS2 Spitfire's size, I'd expect it to mount quad Godsaws, a scout radar antenna, an Annihilator launcher on top, and a coffee machine in back for the engineer.

id like a range increase from 50 to 65, and a slight damage increase, hell reduce accuracy a small bit i dont care, just do what i say.

It is not worth replacing with the standard AI turret in any situation. They need 1.5 to 2 times more health and faster target acquisition.

I actually... really like the idea of a coffee machine in the back.

I also actually think the acquisition timer is a good limitation. It gives the target time to respond instead of making them pay for something they potentially couldn't have seen. If the enemy has good response time then they can avoid initial damage, but they still have to deal with the turret somehow. If it acquired targets too fast I think it would tread too far into 'aimbot' territory. I just think it should actually be worth a damn to set up in the first place, either by making it cheap, deal meaningful damage, or stronger than a box of crackers

I bought the Spitfire immediately after logging in. Then I set it up and it kept beeping but didn't seem to shoot. So I logged in with a VS char and tested it with a friend. It DOES do damage, although you won't see any tracers nor do the beeps indicate anything.

Long story short: About 1 hour played babysitting this thing where it was supposed to catch someone ended up with ZERO kills, but one 37 pt kill assist. I'd say they are about as useful as base AA-turrets which means, you can annoy the enemy a bit, but you won't really kill anything and it's not worth investing your time.

If you want to see how Spitfire turrets are supposed to work, just download PS1 - it's free to play also.

The loud beep indicates enemies are nearby.... or did you not read my comment? ¬_¬ When enemies aren't nearby, quiet beeping, enemies nearby... loud beeping. Your comment also makes it seem like you have an issue with placing it.

One behavioral adjustment it should get is damage retribution. It should try to engage anything that opens fire on it regardless of distance if it's not already pursuing a target.

(Everyone's mentioned the "quicker target acquisition" thing enough times already. I just wanted to suggest something fresh.)

the most annoying part (after the sound) - bumping into friendly turrets...

If it had more than a 50m range it'd be op. >>
Besides, just get an anti personnel turret if you want more than that range. This is a close quarters weapon.

Use it to cover your back, so you won't get flanked by light assaults. This is the only real use I can think off.

Or, and here's an idea, use it as the perfect additional tool.

It's not a primary weapon, this thing is nothing more than a tool that helps you while you fight someone. Don't let the turret 1v1 anything, but use it as bullet sponge, enemy spotter and tool to lower the TTK on enemies.

Now I can hear you say "bullet sponge, come off it!", but you should realise that the enemy needs half a magazine of any weapon but LMG/explosives to kill this thing. Even then, they spend 15 bullets worth of time firing at that thing before they even start aiming at you. In that time I can kill most people with my trusty carbine. Oh dear, I lost my turret, but I got a kill and no damage.

Alternatively, the guy targets me instead of my turret. Ok, no biggy. I got a Carbine to deal with him, but my turret is also firing at him, reducing the time and bullets I need to kill him. Also, anything i do to extend the time we fight such as cover will help me more than it helps him, as my turret will still be firing and dealing damage. Should the guy kill me, than there's a high chance he will die to my turret anyway considering he'll likely be close to death and still needs to retarget to the turret.

And if I'm sitting at a point, it's the perfect thing to cover my back. It won't be saving my *** by killing him, but it will warn me that there actually is someone behind me. Likely these people will shoot the turret and then enter, meaning I know they are there and don't get shot in the back. Alternatively they think "I know there's someone there" and run in trying to find me and kill me while avoiding the turret fire, but the turret already gave off sound to indicate an enemy is there.

Unlike mines, this thing doesn't cost resources, can't be circumvented by taking another door (if placed right), and will always help me in a fight regardless of what happens. Just like mines, they become wasted if you have to leave them behind. Mines at least offer killing power when some straggler walks across it, the turret doesn't. But is that really a problem when you see all the advantages this turret can give?

I don't think it needs more range either.

The PS1 Spitfire only had about 10-15m (20 at the outside) range...... but it did start to fire immediately someone came into range (it may have done more DPS than the PS2 one as well! ).

There should be more than one in stock but only one to deploy at time.
Some cert line to this will be nice.
Hell all turret should have limited number in inventory.
Its not fun when you sitting in your tank and enemy Engi is trying stubbornly place his AV turret on ridge.
Cos you know even MBT has limited ammo.

Spitfire suck balls and needs some positive sides to it. The only positive thing about it right now is that it's free resource vise, and even that is mitigated by the carrying capacity.

ATM it have approx. infantry men's health, huge profile, 100 dmg \ 400 RPM, ~450 m\s velocity, 0.15 static COF, 50 m range limitation, slow turning speed and slow target acquisition and limited supply that cannot be increased by any mean. Hence it have low killing potential, low survivability, almost non existent spamability, problematic placement but no resource cost (yay?).
I think that it needs to be re-made. Here is the following aspects that bothers me most:

Survivability:
I see 2 ways of doing this - either increase health\resistances or\and reduce it's size, maybe even give it a invulnerability shield like stock AI turret. Survivability of an individual turret should be tied to it killing potential, so if it has high killing potential it should have low survivability and vice versa. Plus the quantity that can be placed by individual must not be forgotten, so if it dies really quick you probably want it to resupply faster unless it is overly powerful.

Killing potential:
More damage output - more killing, but there can be placed multiple turrets and there is turning speed, range limit and COF. Clearly its size makes it hard to stack them together, so to increase its lethality in groups their size must be reduced or individual fire power increased to compensate for more scarce placement. I totally do not like the range limit and think that it should be increased since many infantry can easily kill it from further ranges due to its huge profile and inability to retaliate. I think that COF would be a better solution for limiting it's ranged killing potential or even damage drop off and lock on range should go up to 70 m at least(yada yada,free marksman ribbons, yada yada) hence making it more efficient at short ranges. Also it is worth noting that turret goes for body shots only as far as I can see, so damage must be adjusted accordingly. Or if you want it to be not a kill farming tool then you could give good accuracy, low damage and some suppressive effects like screen shake, splash damage, noisy hits for targets or something like that, it would provide at least some sort of support for other players.

Spamability:
How often player can use them. This can be limited by carrying capacity (like it is now), resource cost, or recharge timer like AI\AV turrets and other abilities. If it is very powerful you want it to be used less often so bump recharge time\resource cost\lower carrying capacity and vice versa if its weak.

I personally would like to see it's size decreased with added strong resistances vs small arms(75-85%), static COF 1,25-1,75 , lock on range 70 m, 112 dmg \ 550 ROF faster lock on or instant target acquisition\turn, same velocity, add placement recharge time of 35-45 seconds.

Alternatively keep the size, increase it's HP by 2-4 times, give higher small arms resistances(15-35%), static COF 0,25-1,00, lock on range 60m, 84-100 dmg\ 450-550 ROF faster lock on, same or slower velocity, add placement recharge time of 35-45 seconds, add some screen shake effect to its attack, some small splash damage.

Or even keep the size, increase it's HP by 2-3 times, add invulnerability shield to the front, give higher small arms resistances(15-35%), static COF 1,25-1,75, lock on range 70m, 125 dmg \ 600 ROF faster lock on or instant target acquisition\turn, same or slower velocity, add resource cost of 100-200 nanites per unit, optionally add extra capacity per infantry with utility pouch.

Infinite turrets(one down at a time), decrease target acquisition, and increase health a bit. All it needs.

Will enables the engineer use it as a support tool, ie, place it down to where you are defending.

If we make it too killy or resilient, choke-points are going to become ridiculous. Remember you also have a primary weapon and grenades...

Here is what i would like:
Reduce the size of it. Its friggin huge.
It should target and fire at targets faster (like in planetside 1). Its like an old confused man when someone ADADs, sometimes it wont even shoot.

Just my 2 Cents on improving it:

- Reduce size approximately 10%
- Buff Damage slightly. It's what? 100 now? Make it 110-115.
- Increase Bullet resistance. Give it about another 500 HP worth of survivability. But keep the 3 Knife/1 Rocket to kill.

Just need enough to make it a bit more resilient and less ignore-able.

Also they should rework target acquisition, turret should not switch targets back and forth because one comes closer then the other after starting firing at one. IMO priority should be as follows:
1. Closest to current angle turret is facing
2. Targets health
3. Distance
And it have to stay on target for some time to deal damage, say 4-5 shots before switching to next one.

Bullet sponge, come off it!

joking aside it sounds like you haven't played much with this. What you're describing is what I thought I was getting into when I first bought the thing. I understand what you're saying - even if someone kills the turret they are still wasting time/bullets which is a good thing.

1v1 scenarios with this thing are rare, at least in my experience (admittedly it came out only yesterday). But even in these scenarios you aren't factoring in the time it takes for the turret to start firing. 1v1's tend to last 1 second or less, while the turret takes about that much time to acquire the target. Plus it needs to rotate to face the target, and from what I've seen a 90 degree turn will take another whole second. If, say, we duke it out and he wins but is nearly out of health, breaking line of sight with the target (which is usually easy since 1v1's tend to happen near corners) or even just running faster than its tracking speed (if you're close enough) will prevent death. This happened to me earlier today when I jumped down from a ledge behind two unsuspecting engineers and started firing, only to hear a turret beep behind me. One of them turned around in time to take me down to half heath before I killed him. I started towards a nearby object, though I assumed the turret would kill me before I got there... fortunately it only fired 2 shots before I broke line of sight, and since each shot does so little damage I was able to survive. That was by far the most effective turret I've yet seen.

I suppose it could be used to "cover your back" in the sense that it beeps when an enemy is in range, but this has few practical purposes. If I'm, say, firing from a high window or roof alone and I want to avoid being backdoor'd, placing a turret in a place where all entrances are covered (usually in the same room you are) will indeed sound an alarm, and may even scare the attacker into retreating, but if the guy has his wits about him he'll realize he still has the jump on you and will take advantage of it. Plus if you're planning to go into a position where you need to cover your back, proximity mines do the trick much better, and cost fewer certs.

True that it doesn't have a resource cost, but it does take up your turret slot, plus mines have a pretty low resource cost. Sadly they can be circumvented by taking another door, because the TTK a turret is slightly less than the TTT (time to turn) to face you from your new door position. Again, yes this may cause distraction, but they could also throw a grenade, cut the corner so the turret stays out of LoS, or just simply ignore it, because if they can get the jump on you or are otherwise more 1v1 capable (close-range weapon, overshield, etc.) the turret won't make up the damage.

I'm not saying the turrets as they are are completely useless, or that ideal scenarios will never happen. I don't necessarily think they should get extreme buffs or extra abilities; I like a lot of the limitations as they are, like range and target acquisition time, even tracking. I just think that when someone is silly enough to still be a viable target after these limitations are considered, there should be more consequence... or it shouldn't fall apart after being sneezed on... or it shouldn't cost 1000 certs.