So NC is the OP 4th faction now that everyone likes?

I run SO fast from vanguards with enforcers.. I swear that thing takes 2shots at my mag/prowler and Im already down to 60%.. that things resist values are ****** or something... does WAY to much dmg

I generally agreed with most of what you said except this. Do you realise how bad the TR carbines are? they are all basically the same. They dont have a long range carbine, a high damage carbine, or a super high rate of fire carbine. TR carbines SUCK. The only good thing about them is a slightly higher magazine size, which wont save you unless the other guy somehow misses half his magazine.

I said they don't have the best carbines in the game anymore. It sounds like you thought I said they *do* have the best carbines in the game.

That being said, I haven't tested how they perform after PU2, but before this recent patch they were the undisputed best carbines in the game, Jaguar being the best carbine in the game. TR carbines were all basically variations of that best carbine, you are correct...Lynx was amazing, T5-AMC was the only carbine in the game that could perform genuinely *great* at long range instead of needing single shots or bursts.

If you want to say they suck now, well I can't argue with you because I wouldn't know. If you wanted to say TR carbines sucked prior to this patch, you'll just sound silly.

You can say this but at least up until the very recent patch they were all outperforming all other faction counterparts. Every single one. AMC>ACX-11, Jaguar>GD-7f, TRAC-5>Merc, Lynx>Razor, and the same was true of the burst and S variant as well. No joke, when it came to carbines each and every counterpart was TR>VS>NC- every single one. Not much else to say but that.

Variety? Perhaps not. Effectiveness? Absolutely.

There is a video out there that shows you what you can do with AMC+6x scope if you wnat long range, if you want short range then Jag or Lynx, if you want in between the Trac-5 or Lynx and if you like attachments then get the S variant.

Not sure if recent data will continue to show the same trend. Hopefully, if the devs hit the nail on the head with some of the changes in the patch then we will see some greater parity in this category.

Vulcan is complete garbage now on the Prowler, it was situational but there were times I would pull it from time to time since I'm a Gatling Gun fan. Now it's just trash. I also don't believe that the MBT version was outperforming the Halberd, Saron, and Enforcer ML85. Marauder might still be good, but the Enforcer ML85 is now the best all around ES AV weapon by alot.

Jaguar was definitely the only high RoF carbine that was effective at basically all ranges, eve now it's *decent*, T5 AMC still reigns supreme king range, I don't even think the AC-11X is better than it, as you have to fire no more then 2 bullet burst to use the damn thing.

The .75 ADS nerf to TR carbines was not needed imo, because I think everyone carbine deserves the .75 ads multiplier, but that's just my 2 cents

Video you are talking about

Maybe you're right. I aint the best source because the only weapons I use in this game are the faction specific ones.

My only auraxium is the mini chaingun.

NC was my first character and I immediately bought the jackhammer and phoenix and found them to be pretty effective at what they do. For longer rangers I would switch and use the gauss saw which was amazing at longer range. I also used Titan AP rounds and the enforcer (AV) on the prowler. All of these weapons have served me very well.

I cannot say much for the other NC weapons because I have no desire to touch them. (Same with TR as well I dont use carbines, smg, snipers, shotguns, or anything really except the minichaingun )

As far as faction specific weapons go, I think the NC are in a very good place for the fun they bring. (Except the vehicle shotgun, that thing is goofy)

Whats fourth factioning?

Yeah, I definitely think they should have taken a closer look at some of the figures because from what I could tell the Vulcan was under-performing on the Prowler and over-performing on the Harrasser. That put balancing this in a tricky place but one that anyone with game experience can understand more or less immediately- Vulcan under-performs at range and over-performs in closer ranges. Duh, harasser was able to capitalize on the strength of the Vulcan by getting in close whereas on the Prowler not so much.

Still, in many situations in an MBT the best role for the secondary gunner is to swat away the infantry and other close threats and the Vulcan probably still does this better than the Enforcer. The difference is that the Enforcer, while lack luster against infantry, works at least fairly well at all ranges against all targets- not as good against infantry but better against vehicles than most other options- so you can pick the Enforcer and then just deal with the drawbacks. The issue I see with the Vulcan is that if you run a lockdown Prowler then you may think "this will be good because it helps counter the weakness of lockdown" a la protecting from threats that capitalize on the immobility (C4 carriers, ESF/Harrasser/MAX ambushes). Only then you are also limiting the real power of lockdown because Vulcan has never been good for ranges where lockdown excels. Ultimately, I think this makes the Vulcan on the Prowler a niche weapon and that is not something that TR is really known for- most TR weapons are built around being solid all-around choices. TR can go with the Halberd but, of course, this, now, is lackluster against infantry and is NS so it is not as interesting as something empire specific.

I mentioned this pre-patch, that I thought they should be careful with balancing the Vulcan because it was really only over performing on one specific weapon platform and for, at least IMO, obvious reasons that could be dealt with without making it a novelty for the Prowlers. I still think the Vulcan can be devastating on a Prowler built for CQC brawling (as it would seem they intended for the Prowler) but this, IMO, is generally a more risky playstyle for any tank and does not really mesh well with the artillery role of lockdown or tank columns in general.

Fun, absolutely I agree.

Also, the Jackhammer (after a few passes) is apparently quite a beast though I would not know as I have never used it. Still, from what I have seen in terms of performance the Jackhammer is right around the other shotguns that every else has (and in some ways just under the extra-pellet PAs).

Phoenix I do have and while it can be fun because it is different, IMO, it is anything but effective- though I hear most people feel similarly about the ESRLs.

The Vanguard is another area that is in a good place despite consistently showing itself to be the lowest scoring tank in the game (for, I think, obvious reasons related to its relative difficulty dealing with infantry threats).

In fact, these three weapons- Jackhammer, Phoenix, Vanguard- are the few places where NC was doing OK (note that I say OK because while the Jackhammer scores well it is still just another shotgun, the Phoenix is a slower decimator and the Vanguard- while great 1v1 tank on tank- lacks everywhere else so much that it is lowest scoring). These were not items the NC had issues with and were frequently regarded (and continue to be regarded) as some of the best things.

The issues with the NC were mostly related to the MAX being very niche (i.e. CQC and not much else) and the general infantry arsenal where it seemed there was evidence showing that the equation the devs were using to balance did not adequately weigh ROF and over valued damage per shot. The devs, it seems, took a different angle and focused on overall hipfire capabilities and the headshot-nanoweave relationship and I think that they did this because they thought it was a more elegant way to impact the gameplay that may help the overall balance between High ROF*low damage per shot and Low ROF*high damage per shot weapons- basically, just making High ROF*low damage per shot more niched into CQC and Low ROF*high damage per shot more niched into longer range with the added benefit that everyone now has more incentive to ADS (rather than this being a necessity for the NC and an option for TR/VS at many ranges).

Suffice to say, not enough time has passed since the patch and no one, that I am aware of, has tried to pull any performance related figures to look at how things are now playing out to say anything meaningful about how these changes have affected faction balance. It is true that ZOE, the Vulcan and the Harrasser have all taken nerfs and I think most level-headed players feel that this is for the better.

TLDR: Not enough time has passed since the patch and no one has presented post-patch performance related data to say anything really meaningful about how this patch affected faction balance. If the devs hit the nail on the head (i.e. everything is now perfectly balanced) then yeah the NC should be doing relatively better because for over a year, overall, they were doing relatively the worst.

The Vulcan was outperforming the halberd, enforcer and saron according to SOE, which is why it was nerfed.

The only reason you'd think it's garbage now is because it's not the amazing Super-Basilisk that it used to be. It still does much more raw DPS than the Bassie even in nerfed form, and that doesn't factor in how armor has 10% less resistance to the vulcan than they do the bassie. Add to that it still massacres infantry, 800RPM 167 damage weapon? Straight up murder. Enforcer now does the most DPS to armor, but is still much less effective at AI than the Vulcan.

My primarily playstyle with the Prowler is the front lines and CQC to medium range. The Vulcan wasn't even worth pulling before the nerf unless I knew I was going to be in tech plant or I had a gunner who was MLG accurate with it when burst firing (I did have one guy who was ridiculous with it) but the vast majority of the time it wasn't worth pulling over the Halberd. Now it was nerfed against infantry and they made the damage drop off even more extreme. It was one of the most stupid balance decisions I've seen the developers do.

Short range AV weapons are horrible for tanks to use unless you're a Vanguard, and even then the Halberd or E-ML85 would be a better choice. As you said, ontop of that they made Prowler lockdown a medium to long range ability and they are making the Vulcan into an Enforcer Modified AV weapon. The Vulcan was under performing on the Prowler, and the fact they nerfed it because it was good on the Harasser is pathetic. It doesn't even behave like a Gatling Gun, its range is too short, too innaccurate, the SMG's in the game have a higher ROF of it... They should've made it fire fast, fire accurate to around 200 meters, and given it low damage per bullet and a high damage drop off.

It wasn't even good on the Prowler, most of the people in our armor task force didn't even use it. If you think it was amazing you didn't use it enough. The way you're describing it is how it applies to the Harasser Form. If it was so amazing, why did I feel so compelled to use the Halberd almost always even though I'm mostly a CQC-Medium range tanker? I really don't think you know what you're talking about, I have both the Vulcan and Halberd certed, hundred of hours into the Prowler, and the Halberd is superior to the Vulcan on the Prowler in the vast majority of situations.

I'm sort of hoping that Stallone's epic face palm is directed more at the developers than myself seeing as how I agree pretty much 100% with what you are saying here.

Vulcan nerf was a bad move and I said that before the patch for the exact same reasons you cite- great on the harasser bad on the Prowler and for obvious reasons. Maybe I give too much credit to the Vulcan in CQC but I know that is why it was performing so well on the harrasser so it stands to reason that it is not garbage in CQC- the question, I think, is whether the Prowler can get in and out of CQC situations to make it useful and, as I said, it seemed pretty clear the answer was no because they are very distinct weapon platforms.

With any luck they will get some great new post-patch data that shows exactly what we are saying- Vulcan = pffft, especially for the Prowler. I think the patch already made the harasser weapons different from MBT weapons (even though they share the names) so it should not be hard or unexpected for them to have to look into balancing them separately. Hopefully they will get things right because trust me, I know how it feels to want very badly to have and use ES weapons that proudly display ES traits and feel like you're being hosed if you do.

TLDR: I'm on your side Eskimo, make a thread about looking into the Vulcan numbers and making adjustments and I will support it.

It's too early to really tell how well NC perform. The only thing I've really noticed is that they're definitely performing better, but I can't help shake the feeling that showing up with a 2:1 or 3:1 numbers advantage might be the primary factor in that...

Personally I find it much the same as when the TR were over-pop: it's a target rich environment, and many 4th faction are rubbish players. Easy targets combined with an xp boost for population are a great combo.

4th faction are very fickle. They'll move faction at the hint of a numbers advantage. Especially on Briggs, where the 4th faction are, I think, the largest faction on the server.

Well your opinion on its performance doesn't coincide with SOE's statement about how it outperformed every other AV secondary. You may not have personally preffered it but I drive a VG and let me tell you, they were not fun to go up against as either infantry or armor. And on a harasser pre-nerf, best just run and hide.

Personal preference, same reason a lot of VGs roll with Halberd instead of the Enforcer. What, you think the weapons you prefer are what every tanker should prefer? Stats say the Vulcan was outperforming all other AV secondaries so obviously a ton of TR tankers disagree with you, if you want to argue that go take it up with SOE dude.

True, more time and figures are needed to have a sense of the real effects of the patch.

I agree with one exception- when TR was over pop recently they were still out performing others in many respects. The only areas where they were appreciably bested was MAX because ZOE was a clear front runner and LMGs because VS was a clear front runner (NC made a good showing in LMGs with the Anchor though). So over populated does not always equal under performing.

Absolutely. After all, the 4th faction go where the (perceived / real) advantage is.

As a faction the TR were out-performing, I'm not debating that for a second. But by acquiring all of the 4th faction they had a great deal of bad players. So while fighting the TR was tough, fighting a TR often wasn't. If that makes sense.

Nope charge is the best ability on every faction now.

I'm sad, that people think, that this iteration of JH is great :/ Second iteration JH was better with same damage, cone of fire and spread, but with 250 rpm :/ now... it's measly 225 rpm semi auto with 450 rpm burst pump action alternative ****.