SMGs should be toned down.

Why is it a good idea to give the Infiltrator something than can punch through a HA's shield, armor and health before they can spin around?

May as well give them pump shotguns - even then, people would still prefer the SMG.

I say remove the option of extended mags and lower the RoF of the speedy SMGs by 50.

I hate those Infs too but don't see the need for the nerf. It's just an annoyance rather than throwing off the game balance.

I guess you missed the part of Beta where they DID have shotguns

Ah, this thread again.

If i can't muster enough situational awareness / if i bring myself in situations where they can sneak up on me with faction specific cloak sounds, imperfect cloaks and radar detection everywhere it's not MY fault!

They need to be nerfed!

/insert whambulance meme

A full armored heavy with max nanoweave and normal shields takes quite a while (by this games TTK standards) to kill. If they were snuck up on and didn't pop their shields first as is the worst case scenario they should die. If they weren't paying attention to the rather visible shimmering and didn't fire at it then he should have died.

I don't think it needs a nerf exactly, as being snuck up on will get you killed no matter the class. Sure it's easier for infiltrator, but we exchange that for less hp and if we're caught while cloaked we're basically dead. People should be more aware that infiltrators can wreck **** and be prepared for them to be used in a way different than a normal class.

Eh, i get killed by more TR Harassers than i do SMG infils from all 3 factions.

If one just happens to shove it in your rear, you just have to accept that its life and hope your platoons medics can get you back up.

I admit it is annoying to have my HA snuck up on and ganked by an infiltrator during a fight when you can't be aware of them.

That said, it seems like I kill far more of them trying to do this (usually uncloaking to kill someone else, or spotted in passing) than kill me.

As stealth assassins go it seems like the right mix of high risk, high reward.

They only problem with the infiltrators is that the decloak time is too short. They can basically line up a headshot and practically start shooting the second they hit the decloak button. Even worse, in medium to heavy combat scenarios the delay makes them appear as if they shoot while cloaked.

Night obviously aggravates the whole situation.

Its not the SMG thats the issue. I don't remember ever being killed by an SMG in the hands of anyone but an infiltrator.

The problem is the .3 second or so delay (latency) your shooting at there "ghost". I have died before they even fired a shot on my screen before. Many many times we kill each other but they never decloaked on my screen or had just started shooting. But since i win far more of these than i lose (basically FCRW infil that move too fast, and warp around while shooting are only ones that kill me, unless i am fighting a 3rd party).

I could have sworn in beta there was a delay between uncloak and being able to fire (basically the equip speed of the weapon). Recently it doesn't seem to be there. That slight delay might be all thats needed to make people feel better. If i see the infil before he decloaks i should win, period. Problem again is the dam latency which some people seem to abuse to a further extent than what actually exists.

Well that's true enough. I often go close range sniping, like 15-20 meters, and with the 4x scope I use it's easy to line up a headshot and then decloak before they even know what was about to happen.

Pretty hard to miss the glass statue walking by you.

Make a mistake and learn from it.. This is the main reason why infiltrators pick on the weak

I actually think SMGs should be exclusive to the Infiltrator class, after all they were excluded from having shotguns.

Inf hunting is my job. I'll go around the whole map just to stab one. Love it.

Once they start shooting you, there isn't even time to fire a single shot back at them even if you're facing them already.

You do know that on low quality infils are practically invisible? Not a predator like cloak and not like the old stick man cloak.

Bullets kill people. When games tone them down it becomes stupid.

How about we cut health of all classes in half so people die faster. I prefer more cautious play.

Acutally what you are having a problem with is server lag. Usually whoever sees someone first wins. Thats is why people die when they retreat around corners. On my screen they are not around a corner because the hit detection is client side.

The issue I have Is that they don't lose there fast TTK from a least 20 to 30 meters out while shotguns that have TTK that are similar and slightly faster lose all potency out of spitting distance. Also Shotguns require precise well timed shots to get those fast or faster TTK while at spitting distance SMG's are pretty much spray and pay with a lot of room for error.

And what really hits the highest notes of grating is Heavy Assaults using SMG's. I'm just like "Why.JPG" Their are soooomany better or at least less cheesy weapons you could use as a HA of any faction why are you using that?

It's a close quarters weapon, the only good close quarters option for infiltrators. You walk into a room with an SMG as any class, if anyone near you has a full-auto shotgun, you're dead. The most effective range for SMGs is dominated by another gun entirely, not to mention some of the assault rifles are actually better at CQC, and they don't get a harsh damage drop off at mid-long range. The only reason SMGs aren't underpowered currently is that infiltrators can use them.

Or, you know, you could pay more attention to the battle. You can hear a cloaking cloaking a mile away and the cloak doesn't last very long, so you know they're in the vicinity. Don't blame the cloaker for your mistakes.

Because that's the entire point of a stealth character, you donk. You put in the effort and sneakiness to get behind them at pointblank range, so you get your "critical hit." Try going head to head in a straight up brawl with an equally skilled player, and you winning comes down to three parts luck and one part skill. The SMG shines as a weapon that excels at killing people who you manage to get the jump on, which is why it has such dramatic damage falloff at range, and why the infiltrator is the only class that really benefits from it.

I mean, do you complain about the spy in TF2 being able to 1-hit kill anybody with a backstab? Because it's the same dang principle.