Slow Cert Gain != Pay 2 Win

But Ashur... this is a TEAM game, not a "Oh lawl gaiz look at my KD - you wish you were as gud as mee" game. Not everyone can play the most rewarding role always. If everyone did, we'd get nowhere fast.

And Burster MAX is possibly one of the most enjoyable roles I have ever played - The hilarious reaction from ESF pilots who are suddenly torn to shreds alone is worth it. I can't keep track of the number of pilots I have caused to panic and fly straight into the nearest piece of geometry.

If this were a monthly subscription the same people would complain it sucks and it should be free to play because they wont waist their money. (which they dont have anyhow) When a game is free to play, the players who wont or cant afford to use any real cash complain that their gameplay experience isnt exactly the same as those paying money.

No one is going to spend money on pure cosmetics. People pay money because they dont want to wait around to get the weapons they want. If those people were forking up the money for this, you wouldnt have a game to complain about period. You cant have the best of both worlds. There has to be serious benefits to players to fork over cash, especially huge amounts. I do agree some of the prices are too high and greedy, but if there wasnt a serious benefit in some format no one would purchase. I say no one but I'm sure a few would purchase pure cosmetic items just to be different.

The benefit here isnt that the payers will have items that you could never get. They have the benefit of getting them right away. No wait which is an awesome benefit to me because I just want to get in, and get gunning away. I have always hated the grind. However there is still a cert gain but such is an MMO.

Before you complain that you are upset because it will take a long time to get all the items you want with certs vs how long it takes paying customers, ask yourself why arent you paying money? No cash? Cheapo? Spoiled and expect the best for free? Because you should be supporting the people behind a game you are playing for free even if it's just a few dollars.

Lastly people are going to gripe and complain because that's just in their nature. People will quit who were destined to quit irregardless, that's just who they are. But plenty people will stick around and quite alot will be payers and those that realize they are paying free of charge, a large FPSMMO. What does a person paying absolutely nothing offer to the game or it's future other than another body on the field to shoot at? Actually I think that is the purpose of f2p, more bodies.

Is this a fight about terminology?
Dafuq "no u can not say this to that becauze blabla" who cares!

If one feels absurdly weak, just to be there as a moving target, getting shocked and demotivated by the certs issue THEN
nobody cares how this is called. They loose the fun and throw the game.

Problems recurring in every single P2W thread like this blocking any and all meaningful discussion:

1) Pay 2 Win does not have an absolute agreed upon definition. It is a point on a gradient for many people, and some people draw the line further down than others.

2) The argument that "everything is free if you grind long enough" applies even if cert gain was a hundred times slower and items a hundred times more expensive.

The fact of the matter is that PS2 have very slow reward for free players and yes, some have left because of it (and players have been leaving for many other reasons as well).

Regardless of what you want to say, Planetside 2 offers rather poor value for free players, who can get much more (in terms of items, gameplay options, and even cosmetics) for much less in almost every other (non-asian) Free 2 Play model on the market. Everything from LoL, Dota2, Blacklight: Retribution, TF2, etc, etc offer players far more with much less commitment or investment.

Infantry weapons seem mostly reasonable, but the consensus is almost universal: vehicle upgrades make the vehicle superior. People with A2A missiles and Rocket Pods pretty much never re-equip the Afterburner fuel tank for any reason, and Tank jockeys almost always have High Explosive rounds, because they are dramatically better. If the starting equipment was reversed, Afterburner fuel and "standard" tank ammunition would not be selling in the cash shop as well as Rocket Pods and High Explosives.

You can argue the definition of Pay2Win all you want, but regardless, PS2 is not competitive with regard to other Free2Play models - which offer much more for much less to free players - and it is alienating people from the game, and leaving them with an impression that their vehicles and equipment restrict and limit their gameplay, and thus their enjoyment.

We want Free Players to enjoy the game. Free Players are lifeblood to the servers. If Free Players feel that they are getting more fun elsewhere, they will go elsewhere. And keeping gameplay options and variety heavily restricted and off-limits without serious time commitment is detrimental to many players fun.

The problem is an illusion created by the players themselves. Every free to play game has people clamoring over it being "pay 2 win." Every single one. The arguments for most of them are always the same, too: it takes too long to get anything as a free player.

I do not feel that PS2 is any easier or harder than other F2P games or even AAA retail titles. The progression speed feels about the same as that of Battlefield: Bad Company 2 to me, and I am strictly talking about non-double XP, non-boosted, 100% free to play XP gains.

I am not necessarily even saying that cert gain couldn't be a bit faster; in fact, I'm all for it. But then, I am also for getting free cable, free internet, and free meals from any restaurant I go to. That doesn't mean I'm going to get it.

So

Many

Tears

Stock guns and vehicles are fine and can kill. Game needs unlocks. Personally, I played for an hour last night and made 230certs with the 50% cert booster (so about 154certs stock) with screenshots to prove it if I was at home. At that rate, an hour a night for a month would be 4620 certs - how fast do people want everything all at once for no cost free of charge and be thanked for it?

1) That sort of cert gain is not the median or even the average for Free Players.

2) Even if it was, it is still terrible compared to the competition in Free2Plays:

Assuming one hour a day for a month:

Well in TF2, an hour a night for a month would easily unlock 100% of items that effect gameplay (especially with trading or crafting). You'd probably even have a few cosmetics. You'd be able to do anything you wanted that any other paying player could do, except change your looks.

In DOTA2, everything that in any way affects gameplay is unlocked from the start, and you'd probably have 3-5 cosmetic items. You get everything that matters from the start, free. One game a night, you'd probably get a drop or two each week, so you get to customize the looks of a couple of your heroes.

In Mechwarrior: Online, you'd have earned enough for a few different mechs, all upgraded and finished with customized loadout and upgrades unlocked. The first week or two would suck, but it'd start snowballing once you completed you first real mech, and would go even faster with a team or some friends.

I could go on, and list through every single Free 2 Play game, but almost all of them leave you with a lot more than "enough to kit out one class."

"Why can't Planetside 2 offer a competitive business model? -- One that attracts free players, rather than repulsing them."

There's actually very few P2W games that DONT let you unlock the items somehow through grinding in the game, the problem stems from needing to grind for 2 years of casual play before you can be on equal footing with someone who spent $100, and by the time 2 years have passed they will already added 10+ more godly weapons that need to be grinded for, so this logic if folly, just because you can earn something in 2 years casual play doesnt mean its feasable for anyone and doesnt even mean you will be on equall footing at the end of those 2 years, where you will have to grind for the content patches new weapons that the p2w player has already bought with station cash

You guys want everything at no cost and no effort.

Suddenly I feel old.

You mean like buying them with station cash?

PS2 model has many many unlocks you can't buy with real money, only game time. To be honest some people will just never be satisfied. The same type of people that sit on the benefit and complain that they are not provided with a free house fast enough and then when they get a public house, that they have to maintain it themselves!

There is no cert cap, so that's no excuse. Sure, I might have bought EVERY infantry weapon for TR, but it's not like I'll need them. I needed something to spend my Christmas SC on.

But seriously, I'd say that the extra certs would make more of a difference if we could re-spec all of our certs. Then I'd probably just go pure infiltrator or engineer.

for me its about unlocking the items namely weapons i like and not buy them with real money.Whats the point then.Cosmetics,some sidegrades i would pay in fact i already paid for hellfire pods on my tr character.I wont spend another dime utill they fix this game of all the bugs and such.Then they should add more equipment for purchase.

Also 6-7hours for 250 certs is not fun either.1000 certs with normal xp is nearly impossible.I look at the cert count after a killing spree and get depressed its like meh i ll just stand back and give ammunition for xp..5 minutes later screw this

That's no effort but with cost.

I have the sexy lady in the red dress on all my vehicles. Does that mean I am winning?

3x station cash made that 7 dollar weapon to let's say.... Even then you get a free 500 Station cash if you buy at walmart. So 2000 SC for 15 bucks. I got 6000 SC on 3x day. That 7 dollar weapon turned into like 2 bucks.

even the pilot makes more than you. he is making repair certs and you're giving him several ticks of repair each time he has to land

What a shame. Such a great game destroyed because you have to spend money or disproportionally massive amounts of time just to get to the stuff that makes you useful and able to have fun.

I played some in Beta, and just came back recently to check it out. After playing for a few days, about 5 hours each day, I came to the realization this is massively P2W.

Take a hint from successful micro transaction games: pay for aesthetics, not effectiveness. Unfortunately PS2 is a failure, but hopefully it will show future great games that this is the wrong way to run a micro transaction game.

I have 6101+ UNspent certs on my main, VS character. Partly because I am crazy, but mainly because I hold the following beliefs:

• People complain way too much about Pay 2 Win in this game, when it is, like LoL, completely not the case.
• I will personally become too dependent on addons and certable stuff and go mad when I lose to a BR1
• Because its a challenge and I have always been competitive in FPS games.
• To be an example that this game is, for a large part, well balanced, and that its NOT pay2win and certs/sc items are not imbalanced.
• To hear the reply from people I tell about this, who have themselves lamented at their lack of certs to buy some new shiny addon.
• I want to have 9001 unspent certs, so I can say to myself, "IT'S OVER 9000!"

I play NC alot now, and I have to say, there is nothing I hate more than going up against a Solstice or a Cycler/carbine variant, those things melt my face really easily. On my VS, I'd say the NC6 Gauss SAW is the gun I hate going up against. All the non-starter guns seem a bit nerfed, especially the semi-auto rifles.
I do not see why anyone would bother buying another sniper rifle other than the NC14 bolt driver, I absolutely love that gun, and wonder how anyone could possibly whine about the whole bullet drop argument.
I have also thrown a lot of money at this game, but only for cosmetic items and subs, because I can and choose to. I think many other people do, and should, as it supports the game, and still keeps it, the gameplay, legitimate.

SOE is in it to make money. Period. What they did here was give everyone a free game in hopes to persuad people into spending money on their product. I absolutey love this game. The large scale combat is second to none. So I spent what I would spend on a game, to show SOE that I support what they are doing.

Pay to win? I think not. I routinely get killed by players with a lower BR. Might I
have an edge? Absolutely and why shouldn't I? I paid money and you didn't. If you want an edge, come up with some scratch. If people who
spent money are equal in every way to the people who don't, what would be the point of spending money? That would be bad business.

This whole balance thing is ridiculous. Why should I be equal to a player who has a higher BR than me? He put in more time than me therefore he DESERVES something that I don't have. Same with spending money. The minute SOE makes the freeloaders equal to a paying player is the minute I'm gone.

The saying "You get what you pay for" comes mind here. If your not paying your experience shouldn't be as good as mine. I Period. The free experience was good enough to get me and many others to part with some cash. I'm cheap as hell so that's saying a lot.