About from launch a problem has persisted in the game: AA weapons are available but not really intended to kill aircraft. This was a deliberate design by the developers to encourage players to use aircraft themselves and combat others. This has proven to be a source of extreme frustration for both sides. AA weapons are only "good" against aircraft and suck against everything else, and aircraft can't really use flight skills to avoid AA fire on top of AA weapons scaling up quickly. As part of the AA design they are extremely low-skill, low-reward weapons. This is also the source of the problem. To remedy this we need to start introducing skillfull AA weapons which do not have these problems. "Skillfull AA" is a dirty word for aircraft players who expect such weapons to basically instakill them. So the first weapons added to make players get used to skillfull AA weapons would be the very ESF noseguns already in use, with perhaps a few small alterations to keep them balanced. A lightning with the AA noseguns equipped should not be a problem for most players and would make it relatively easy for the devs to add and test.
Not sure how this idea would work out, but I agree something should be done. And for bonus points just taking existing weapons is reasonably easy.
We're forgetting a key aspect of gunplay here: movement. Remember it's not just what weapon you pick and how you aim it that matters. Just as important - if not more - is movement and positioning. For example, a pump shotgun is a very dangerous weapon, which does not allow players to react before they are instantly sent to the death screen. In ranges greater than 8m however, they become pretty much useless. While the weapon is great, you need to be able to use your movement and positioning to live long enough to use it - and be in it's effective range as you do so. The problem is A2A weapons rely heavily on sneaking up behind a target as close as possible, and emptying the whole mag to kill the opponent in one go. At ranges, it's practically as useless as AA. This is why it's tough for players to learn A2A combat. They are often victim of stealth pilots coming up behind them unnoticed and clipping them before they can react. Or the pilots use their evasive maneuvers and/or keep their distance until the noob is empty, and then zoom in and finish him with nosegun or coyotes. The problem with ground vehicles is they aren't able to dictate engagements. The aircraft have better view, more freedom to engage/avoid and outmaneuver + outrun ground vehicles, and dictate the distance at which they remain away from the tank. In an instant the aircraft can ascend. In comparison, it's a bit like aircraft have 3D movement, whereas most ground targets have 2D. So sticking A2A noseguns on lightnings will bring a major issue AA has. Sure it would require more skill to operate than AA, but it wouldn't solve the problem entirely and in most cases likely be less effective. If we go this route we would have to rework the dps of a2g weapons as well, and most importantly the range where they are effective. Another thing I believe we should add is a COF to aircraft guns. Currently aircraft can move around erratically, perform crazy rolls and evasive maneuvers to be an absolute annoyance to hit - yet maintain pinpoint accuracy (or their weapons have so much splash it doesn't even matter). A cool thing would be to make A2G more skill based. Remove most of the splash. Make hornets detonate automatically past a certain range like ravens. Perhaps add a cone of fire that greatly increases with movement and crazy maneuvers - a bit like mirroring infantry on a larger scale.
It would at the very least help in two ways: 1: it would open the door for attempts to change the status-quo of G2A versus A2G. 2: even though ESF noseguns aren't perfect, they would let players use them against non-ESF targets to some extent. They would also allow a good G2A player to deal tremendous damage or even one-clip a hovering ESF, rather than sneak up on an unsuspecting hovering ESF and then just have them fly off once you open fire from point-blank range.
They already do. As for the OP, it's called a walker though you could just ask for it to have the same cone of fire as the rotarys/High cap ones.
Walkers are not the same. Walker DPS versus ESF: 1300. Lowest DPS Scythe nosegun (the deep magazine version): 1738. And it has more magazine size to boot. In the meantime weapons like the Vortek have 3000DPS. Even more "funny" is that the Walker has a larger COF than the Vortek, which is supposed to lose accuracy due to it's larger COF. to say "just ask for the Walker" is like saying "why should you pick a LMG? Just take a faction pistol and you are good to go". Walkers are designed as deterrence weapons. Instead of mega flak detonation range they have high muzzle velocity and spray&pray, which then lets the developers nerf the weapon damage. The fact that the endurance noseguns are already better in every single way than Walkers except muzzle velocity. Even the "weak" endurance guns handily outperform the walkers almost every single day: https://voidwell.com/ps2/oracle?sta...,5050&startDate=2021-03-28&endDate=2021-05-22 Also what is the problem with asking for more variation? Why would having the ESF Noseguns as primaries be a problem next to Walkers?
You'd have to base it on the High cap ones (the TR or VS one, the kestral is just awful), because the rotarys have such damage fall off that from the ground they'd be quite weaker, weaker than the walker. The VS antreres would be a good basis as it's not terrible like the kestral but not as good as the TR one. The other problem is that people complain that AA is too focused and not good enough in AV or AI, giving lightnings or whatever ESF A2A guns would just be an extention of that. I guess it'd be good against harassers I guess lol Also, you forgot to add the walker that voidwell link. Here I added the Harasser version as that is in my opinion the best G2A platform: https://voidwell.com/ps2/oracle?sta...,6108&startDate=2021-03-28&endDate=2021-05-22
not even. Pistol are actually useful and have better stats for 1v1s than most weapons. A more fair comparison to asking someone to pull AA to counter air is like telling them to equip the heavyweight implant and kill people using it's knockback effect.
Without damage reductions (they are all the same weapon damage reduction anyway): Vortek Rotary at 200+meters: 1787DPS. M18 Rotary: 1666DPS Mealstrom Turbo: 1600DPS. Walker max DPS: 1300 Walker minimum DPS: 1150 That is still 300 more DPS (and better accuracy!) Than the Walker anf similar to their endurance counterparts assuming the Walker is within 50m distance, which it has a smaller chance of accomplishing. So no, the Rotaries would not be inferior. They would in fact be the most superior choices. The best chance at beating an ESF would be to hit them when they get close and kill them in as short a time as possible. Even at range the Rotaries would be superior to walkers in both DPS and accuracy. Kestral and Antares are prettt much tied, biggest difference is one is mounted on a brick that has a larger profile from 85% of the angles you can look at and even when looked at from the bottom the brick has only a slightly smaller frame. You don't think those A2A guns on a Lightning would be good against infantry? I would argue that they might need to be dialed down against infantry to make sure they don't mince them. In fact their DPS and accuracy are higher than the Kobalt, due to the Kobalt's 550 RPM and 0.1 bloom causing the weapon to have larger COF's than any nosegun after just 3 shots at no meaningful higher DPS (even lower DPS). Heh you just ran into the same problem I did: it only shows the currently selected weapons. I had added the MBT+Harasser versions. With the exception of an occasional spike the Walker is inferior. Just go passed all the boxes. Although even if what you are saying is true, then it doesn't matter to try them out as Lightning primaries right? So why are you argueing against this? It's not a difficult change for the devs and not a time-consuming one either.
It's like 400 or 450m & then go away. 150m would be half of the AV mana turret, lol. That's true, it would be okay at infantry. Far better than the current skyguards & rangers anyway. I'm sure infantry will love that. I was more thinking of just rebalancing the walker to be like the A2A nose-guns (except the sunderer ones, they can stay as is) rather than having to make new models and stuff. Would be easier to implement.
Infantry should get their own upgrades. I already mentioned some in other threads. This thread is about making an easy to create skillful G2A weapons capable of doing more than G2A. In the current climate it's better to keep the current G2A and add new one's. If we changed the Walker no matter if it was a good or bad change it would remain in that state forever and people would go "oh well look we changed it once so we don't have to do any more right?". Worst is that if the weapon actually performed well it would likely be nerfed again, even if the weapon actually just performed as an A2A nosegun. But ESF noseguns? No one can complain about those. They are already in the game, aircraft players have accepted them as ok weapons to use against aircraft. Redesigning them to fit on a Lightning shouldn't be too much trouble and the stats can mostly be ported directly. They are the perfect first step to introducing skillful G2A weapons with minimal complaints.
wouldn´t mind adding esf nosegun equivalents and the walker to the lightning, ANT and harraser, esf secondary weapons still need a AA buff though, i would´t even mind if they put the secondaries to the primary esf slot instead but for gods sake buff them to be viable alternatives not some mere poorly added firepower also can we remove build in esf radar and replace that with defaultstealth but in the defensive slot instead? especialy if veterans want the radar covererage they would have to abandon stealth then .. i love how DBG talks about the "new player experience" ... what did they do for that to not be miserable when it comes to flying or/AND AAdefense, especialy against dalton libs?
People have been banging this drum since launch. I doubt it'll ever happen I have been suggesting AA Maxes get a more skill based AA option for years (something like dual Walkers) - yet we are stuck with Bursters which are pretty underwhelming.
