Saron HRB Damage Reduction

Apparently the Saron is getting a damage nerf because it is performing too well against infantry.

This I do not understand.

Out of all the buff and nerf threads that have popped up on this forum I have not seen a single thread which complains about this. I'm a VS player of course so I was wondering how NC/TR players think about being killed by a Saron. Is it that big of an issue? If so, no one has cried nerf on these forums from what I've seen. To me this just seems like another pointless thing people have neither complained about or asked for.

As it stands it takes half of your Saron mag to kill infantry anyway. This nerf will up that to two thirds of the mag so 4 shots. I'm just a little confused as to why it was needed.

I have another question also. Will this reduce its effectiveness against vehicles? Or is there an underlying damage multiplier for that sort of thing?

I started playing ps2 after the one shot Saron version but from what I here the current Saron was a nerf to the original and this just sounds like another nerf for no reason. Heck the halberd still has better infantry killing potential than the Saron.

Is SOE really that hell bent on removing the need for skill from planetside?

It's a tank, of course it's gong to kill infantry effectively.

Please don't think I'm whining about VS getting nerfed I'm all up for balance but can we please have a buff of some sort soon I can't remember the last time we had a noticeable buff. There's a reason VS populations are dwindling.

If you have nothing constructive to say please don't say a thing. Again this isn't a buff VS thread. I'm just a little bit concerned with all the nerfs VS have had recently I'm concerned for many VS players they will get disheartened more and population imbalances will start to further escalate on different servers.


Disclaimer: no I have not provided any references for the assertions I've made. This can make my point seems shallow and moot. This is just how it feels right now talking to friends who play. I do play all three factions, mostly TR and VS atm.

Considering most other tank-based AT weapons OHK infantry, it seems kinda stupid making the Saron require 3 direct hits.

What a hilariously inaccurate statement you've just made

TR AI tank secondaries can't even kill an infantry in 3 shots. Our Maurader takes about a full mag of splash to kill an infantry and it can't do any damage to other tanks, at all. Like 0 damage. And you're worried about your precious raep tiem lazor that has the highest KDR of all tank secondaries by a factor of about 40.

Yo, there's a section for discussing the PTS changes already ya know? It's over here https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?forums/planetside-2-test-server-discussion.70/

The Saron requires a degree of control and good aiming. You can't spam the left mouse button or your shots will miss. In the time it takes to control your shots infantry have plenty of time to move.

In other words this is a stupid pointless nerf.

What's funny is I to haven't seen a single thread crying about this weapon and SOE are going to nerf it. I've seen a million threads on lets see the AV mana turret and yet that has taken a year to fix (hopefully)

It seems all players are equal... just some apparently more equal than others

I ask myself if i should even bother trying to form a retort to such a blatantly biased response.

Don't even try just dont

But on topic the saron did get a splash damage range buff. .5m to 1m. So now if you spam the ground near the infantry they will die in 5 shots. If they all hit within 1 meter of the infantry. So It might still work, but you will lose ammo faster.
Maybe this can be used when shooting a sunderer and splash killing the infantry. But IDK We'll just have to see. IDK how SOE thinks Saron is too good at AI when halbird 1 shots and enforcer 2 shots.

Oh the Irony.

Most of the gunner weapons are allready useless why dont we get rid of them all.
Just put a hatch for scout in the top. There you can advertise your head for snipers and wave around your pistol and q spot targets.

It would be interesting experiment would this lead to pistols be considered OP? Is whatever rides on top of tank sure bet to get nerfed? What causes this?

Is it imaginary cheese in tank turret that nerf mice want to get their hands on?

Here's some data on the MBT secondary weapons, by average KPH and average vehicle KPH:

Magrider Anti-Infantry- 62, 4
Magrider Anti-Tank- 24, 12
Prowler Anti-Infantry- 60, 3
Prowler Anti-Tank- 19, 11 (yup, everyone knows the Vulcan kinda sucks, and it is getting a buff soon)
Vanguard Anti-Infantry- 71, 3 (also known for being terrible and getting a buff)
Vanguard Anti-Tank- 22, 13 (also getting a nerf I think)
NS Anti-Tank- 27, 13 (averaged among all three factions)

So while the Magrider does have the best anti-infantry capabilities among the ES MBT AT weapons, it's still outshone by the NS Halbred. And it's close enough to the rest (the NC Enforcer is only off by 2 KPH) that an anti-infantry nerf really doesn't seem called for (and no one did).

Maybe SOE has secret metrics that aren't captured by the open data we have, but I dunno. We know the Vulcan and Canister need buffing, but almost everything else seemed hunky-dory.

Throw this one in there with the Light Assault ADS nerf... completely out of left field.

As a rule of thumb, the devs pay more attention to the massive pile of statistics they have than people ******** on the forums. And, well, rightfully so. they also often go overboard, but the change in splash damage here is actualy a very mild nerf, and to a secondary function of the weapon.

As for the empire specific AV weapons, the saron is defiantly the best AI of the three, and the easiest of them to use against infantry, last time I gunned a HRB, in addition to the assorted foot soldiers/maxes I downed, I also picked two LA out of the air, some 40m-60m away, maybe farther, there was a decent zoom on that gun.


that said its a change i can take or leave, doesnt realy bother me one way or the other, the saron is an AV weapon, and this change makes no AV difference. The change to the enforcer is more concerning, though i will need to sit down and do the math before I can realy judge that.

Do you guys think I should still get the Magrider Bundle that includes the Saron HRB after this nerf?

Most? there are 4 tank based AV.

OHK:
-Halberd

Non OHK
-Saron
-Enforcer
-Vulcan


So yeah, I'm not sure where you get your "most" from. 3/4 do not OHK infantry.

Oh man, if the Vulcan could OHK people...

Yea, that one was also a head-scratcher. I know some people complain about its AT capabilities, but the stats we have shows that it's about the same as the rest. Slightly better than the Saron, but only by 1 VKPH.

I mean in the patch notes they say that they want to bring down to the same performance level as the Halbred, but it's essentially about as strong as the Halbred already; both have an average vehicle KPH of about 13.

Anyhow, I read somewhere else that someone did the math and it ended up being about a 30% reduction in DPS, which is pretty crazy.

..it still wouldnt.. Because you still have to hit the infantry to OHK them.

well THATS wrong, unless they buffed the fire rate when i wasn't looking. The difference between 10 rounds and 3 second reload with a 1 second refire, and 8 rounds with 3.25 second reload is 7.6%. I was talking more about the math of the enforcer compared to the math of all the other tank weapons (primary and secondary). My spreadsheed is about 8 months out of date

I can't vouch for the data, since I just heard it second hand. But might as well do the math now:

Currently the Enforcer has a 10 round magazine with a 3 second reload. The new Enforcer will have an 8 round magazine with a 3.25 second reload. So let's take a firing time of 1 minute...

Old Enforcer- 500 damage, 60 RPM (1 RPS)
Takes 10 seconds to fire off 10 shots, then spends 3 seconds reloading for a total of 13 seconds to empty a magazine and reload. In a minute that means it can fire off the full magazine and reload 4 times, leaving 8 seconds for 8 more shots. Total shots in a minute is... 48 for 24,000 damage.

New Enforcer- 500 damage, 60 RPM (1 RPS)
Takes 8 seconds to fire off 8 shots, then spends 3.25 seconds reloading for a total of 11.25 seconds to empty a magazine and reload. In a minute that means it can fire off the full magazine and reload 5 times, leaving 3.75 seconds for 3 more shots. Total shots in a minute is... 43 for 21,500 damage.

That's a difference of 2,500 damage over a minute, which is 10.4% of the original damage amount.

So I guess the original figure is wrong. Unless they counted Enforcer splash damage or something, but both MBTs and Lightnings are immune to explosive splash damage from the Enforcer.

its 7.6% (well 7.555, I rounded). your numbers are hitting the fallacy in that the fire cycles to fit evenly into a minute, they may be right for the first minute, but they wont be right for the next minute, or the one after that.


(8/11.25)/(10/13)=0.924444

1-0.924444=0.075555 which rounds to 7.6%

That's true, I just took the random amount for a minute and tested for that. I doubt that real engagements have tanks shooting non-stop for a full minute anyhow.

In practical usage I think the reload time increase will hit even harder, as it's the nature of tank battles to peek n' shoot, and most of the time the roof gunner is reloading during those lulls. Not to mention the increased penalty for missing shots and having to deal with a longer reload sooner.