Rendering distance (roadmap intentions)

Er... you are aware that it currently dynamically changes the render distance depending on how busy the area is?

That's the current setting, using whatever algorithm it uses to decide how far to render.

wtf? I was asking what setting...oh **** it

That's one thing they should not do Imo .. Until they can get a pretty standard optimization across all computer's it will give unfair advantage to some.. At least now it's the same for everyone.
It's not even a simple case of high end PC's vs Low end ones .. Since a lot of high end PC's struggle performance wise .. So not even the " buy a better comp " argument works

I actually waited to build my new PC until right before PS2 beta started. I take your point, and it's valid. But on the other hand, I think my rig can handle whatever PS2 throws at it, and if there was a render distance slider I'd happily use it.

The thought that I can't see enemies 20 meters in front of me in big fights, because SOE can't optimize good enough for low-end machines drives me friggin crazy. A slider wouldn't be fair to low-end users, but the current situation isn't fair to me.

You need to understand that there is a deeper technological problem underlying the render distance. Increasing the render distance even slightly has a huge impact on performance and lag. The location, movement, state and actions of every person your client is aware of (not just seeing but also everyone on the minimap, anyone who gets spotted, damaged etc) has to be transmitted from the server to the client (taking up bandwidth) and has to be constantly processed by your CPU. This might be up to a order of magnitude more then in most multiplayer fps games that you play. If in the next patch they would up the render distance something like 10-20 meters a lot of us who get decent fps in large fights might stall to a complete crawl.

The developers know that a lot of you consider render distance to be a big problem and the priority based rendering is a kind of a bandaid to help with the most damaging aspects of it (so you should actually be able to see who is shooting at you, even if you can't see everyone around him). The whole problem is not that easy to solve however. This is an optimizations issue and it will not be solved in a couple of months. It will continuously be improved and in time the render distance will grow bigger. This will take lots of time however and there aren't really any easy fixes here. It's a problem with the underlying technology.

In reality, this is always the case.

A better PC with a better connection has higher FPS and lower latency.

People can already manually change the world (not player / vehicle but world vs. fog of war) render distance, they can change the graphics setting to alter how visible stealthers are, etc.


:edit:

I do not want the game limited by those on the worst of the worst hardware.

You are correct .. but the problem is atm that the optimization varies that greatly even between high end PC's ..
Higby actually touched on the render issue at the end of the Azure Twilight community design Twitch last night

So.. basically what you are saying is that low-end computers can't handle Planetside 2's massive population computing issues, so SOE set low-end computer users as the lowest common denominator. And the rest of us suffer.

And the the problem won't be fixed for YEARS, until people upgrade their computers to the point where everybody can handle this game. Because essentially it's not SOE's problem, it's a hardware issue.

-IF- the source of the problem is client-side (and I don't know this for a fact), then why the heck did SOE design and build a game that doesn't work? Like I said in a previous post, if that's the case then cut the continent max population from 2,000 to 600 just so we can have a decent, fair playing experience.

SOE just sitting around waiting for hardware technology to catch up is not a solution to this problem.

What did he say? Or do you have a link? I'd love to hear that.

I think he was talking about this:

I just found it so I don't know where he brings up render distance, if someone has time to scroll through and find the time.

He talked about rendering near the last 20 ish minutes. Keep in mind the Raodmap is not all inclusive. There will be plenty of updates/changes that aren't included in the roadmap. Rendering is in the same boat as bug fixes, optimization, and balance tweaks.

Thanks man. He's talking about it around 1:49:00, just after the "why don't you support DX11" question. I skipped to the end and happened upon it by luck.

So basically Higby says straight up that it's a client performance issue. Meaning, this is a free to play game and they need to support low-end computers. IE, users on Windows XP and DX9 graphics cards.

Ok. Well. This is game-changing news for me. I honestly don't know what to say, other than that I am ******* pissed off and giving up hope on this game.

Supporting low-spec computers and forcing everyone to be limited to the capabilities of low spec computers are two entirely different things.

If I want to play games from 5 YEARS AGO I play them on my netbook.

*Your* render distance is being limited due to the capabilites of other people's low-end computers. That's the point.

Render distance is being balanced by the lowest common denominator, and that is 5 year old computers running Windows XP and DX9 graphics cards. That is exactly what Higby is saying in that video.

We lose fewer people who quit because they can't wait for optimization then we would if we just told all the low-end hardware owners to go screw themselves.

People don't seem to realize that the technology behind this game is unprecedented. There isn't any other game that does any better with these kind of constraints then planetside 2 does. To be honest I'm amazed that the game performs as well as it does.

But yeah. The bottom line is that if the rendering distance issue is really completely game breaking for you, you can come back in a half a year or so and check if there has been improvement. A lot of players (myself included) don't have very big problems with the current rendering distance all the time.

TBH you should have a slider in game that you can adjust to set your render distance, am I the only one who thinks this? (btw please read to the end because I know why you might think people with slower pc's might be at a disadvantage) If you have a slow pc, keep it low, don't whine to others for having better pc's. Oh, and another thing, most people playing planetside, and I think it's around the 70% mark, have pretty kick *** computers.

Honestly, if you have a slow pc, you are given the chance to run it better by lowering your render distance. If you want to have a higher render distance, get a better pc, seriously SOE, please take this seriously, it's ruining the game, and people are going to eventually leave because of this issue, and it's not going to be the ppl with slow pc's it's going to be the ones who spent a lot on their PC to enjoy planetside 2 and can't do it, please understand this.

Edit :Now I know people will go like, oooh but its unfair that they can shoot me and I cant shoot them because they have a better PC. Well - think of it this way:

IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING, people are shooting each other without being in each other's render distance based on their location to others. And also, I'm pretty sure they COULD play with high render distance, just that their fps would suffer more. So it's a choice they would have to make:

1) Get a better pc
2) Play with high render distance and low fps
3) Lower render distance and get better fps

Don't let this destroy the game because of a small number of people with slow pc's. I know you want to cater to everyone, but seriously it's Planetside 2, and 2013, they can go play tetris really if they don't want to upgrade their pc for a game as awesome as this.

I STRONGLY believe this is very reasonable, and as you can see on the roadmap topic regarding render distance, there's over a thousand votes on that, and that's just a small partial fix. Everyone wants this.

Heck... I bet people with SLOW pc's would be happier to play with lower fps and higher render distance, than higher fps and people appearing in front of them in the battles that make this game fun.

Go ahead and tell me I'm wrong... , or rather we're all wrong for complaining about this issue that frustrates us

I find it frustrating how SOE primarily allowed people with decent to high-end machines into beta, but then added in the "dynamic" rendering system (to allow for old computers) just a week before release. Slick. But not well thought out.

I don't want to play this game on my laptop. Nor do I think that it will appeal to the guys playing Minecraft only because their 10 year old PCs can't play anything else.

How does the unwashed masses of free2play gamers merge with FPS gamers and MMO gamers and merge with pro MLG gamers into ONE GAME? SOE is obviously trying to cover too many bases with this game. And technically it's impossible for them to do so. This render distance issue is proof of that.

You might be suprised but your high-end gaming computer might be an exeption among planetside 2 players, not the rule. Not anyone has the disposable income to upgrade their computer each year for gaming performance.

You don't have to upgrade each year. High end computers from 2 years ago can run planetside just fine, even older computers. I had one of those computers, and I played just fine, it was totally playable, the gameplay was smooth enough to be enjoyable, and I upgraded just for planetside, because I think it's worth it, but then again, the render distance is horrible anyway.