As of this very moment, using a suppressor on your gun is generally not a good idea because the Cons out weigh the Pros associated with it. There are too many severe downsides to using it, and most guns will likely not benefit from it. I suggest removing the Tracer from suppressed weapons. First of all, this would be a significant asset for the Suppressor as it is meant to help you stay undetected when firing your gun. Players who has been playing this game for a significant amount of time know that the easiest way to locate an enemy that is firing at you is to watch where his tracers originate from, especially if they are firing from a good distance. This is fine, but suppressed weapons are meant to help you stay hidden. Currently, if you fire a suppressed weapon, you will not appear on the mini-map. However, unless you firing from an angle that no one else can see, the likely hood of you being detected is nearly as high as if you didn't have suppressed weapon at all. Not appearing on the mini-map is a big deal, but it is not enough alone to warrant the use of a suppressor in most situations. This is on top of the fact that Suppressors also reduce your weapon's kill potential via dmg drop off, and significantly slower bullet velocity. I agree that Suppressors should have those major downsides, but it needs at least one other major upside to offset the downsides. Let them continue to hide your signature on the map/radar, but also remove the tracer rounds from them to balance it out. Even if Tracers are removed, hitting a target will still give them an idea of where they were hit from via the hit indicator, so it is not as if those running with Suppressors will be completely undetectable. They would still have to deal with all the same downsides we currently have now. Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions?
It already has the upside of removing you from the mini-map when you fire, but personally if you completely remove the tracer I think it might be a bit much. Things like reducing the size of the tracer by 50-75% (so it's still visible but harder to see) would be good though.
We shouldnt even have tracers by default anyway. Maybe it could be a new ammo type given to some weapons. Effect? Decreases CoF Bloom and increases base accuracy but puts out tracers essentially giving away the target position. And yeah, Suppressors shouldnt have tracers....
Even if its 100%, if you're hit, you get an indication of where the dmg is coming from. You won't be completely undetectable still. That said, reduced visibility of suppressed tracers isn't a bad idea, if complete removable isn't an option.
Disagree strongly with the idea. If suppressors had no tracers, people with them would basically become invisible. No tracer, reduced sound (depends on a weapon), no muzzle flash, no minimap signature, nothing. You get into a good position once and you're free to rack up kills unless someone accidentally stumbles upon you. The issue is when you get under fire, you barely see any tracers, even if when staring right at the target. I've lost fights even against Flash Suppressors solely because I couldn't see a muzzle flash. The other people might see your tracers, but not the guy you're firing at. I'd say suppressors are in a good place right now. They give power, but it comes at a great price. We wouldn't want everyone running suppressors, would we?
But not everyone would be running suppressors because they would still put you at a disadvantage in a straight-up fight. Also, you would still get hit indicators, and thus, information of where you were hit whether or not they are using a suppressor or not. Suppressors are very rarely worth the penalty and handicaps they put on your weapon, currently. What is your opinion on reduced tracer visibility from a suppressor then?
I think hiding them completely could cause issues. However, it might be cool if it converted tracers to a duller version of the NS ones, so you couldn't determine faction.
This would be better for the Flash Suppressor instead, but I like the idea. I'd also like the old tracers and not the current lasers we have now.
Hit markers are often useless, because they provide only direction on XY plane, but not Z, so you don't know if the the shooter is above or below you. Hit markers do not provide the rest of the team with information. Unless the killed guy uses voice communication, there is no way for anyone to even know what just happened or where to look. Imagine an LA with dark camo, sitting in dark corner high under the ceiling. Nobody will ever see him there, unless they're checking those places specifically. The hackusations will flow like a reaver. Even though there is a penalty to weapon, it doesn't mean anything. No tracers means the user is free to miss lots of shots, he's not putting himself in jeopardy by firing. I like this idea: You're not implying that Flash Suppressor removes tracers, do you? Because it doesn't, and never did, to my knowledge.
Oh no it didn't, I'm saying it would be more appropriate to add it to that. It is, to be frank, a pretty superfluous attachment that is in need of adjustment. I'm speaking of the "old" tracers from beta that were actual blobs of light as well, not the current ones that form a solid trail of light from the source.
The point of a Suppressor is to greatly reduce detectability. This would doing exactly that. As long as tracers remain for suppressed weapons, the attachment doesn't provide enough to be worth the use. That is why most people do NOT use the suppressor. Someone siting in a corner on a high ceiling is doing exactly what they should be with a suppressed weapon. Hit markers may ignore the Y axis, but it still gives you a direction of where you are being hit from. All you would have to do is look or down at that point. You make it sound like people running this would be completely undetectable when that's obviously not true. Not to mention that by running a suppressor, you've willingly chosen direct combat effectiveness for indirect combat effectiveness. Every direct confrontation you get into, you will be at a disadvantage when you run a suppressor. That is why it should at least give you the advantage when the confrontation isn't direct. An effective, and worthwhile, trade off.
AFAIK, suppressors [in PS2] don't actually quiet the report of a good number of weapons; in some cases actually make them easier to hear. And missing shots means the bullets are hitting the ground around the target; unless oblivious, dirt puffs would be a good hint that you are being shot at.
Why not just make an ammunition type that can remove tracers? I mean I agree overall that adding "no tracers" as a current suppressor perk would be too much. But making it into an ammunition item would make it more interesting. Currently many suppressed weapons have to take Soft Point Ammo to try and make up for the suppressor's shortcomings. So if "no tracers" were an ammo type then you could pick whether you wanted to run with the suppressor with no tracers at a cost of the suppressor and no tracer ammo's downsides, or try to "improve" the suppressor with SPA. I'd imagine "no tracer" ammunition would just do slightly less damage (lower max/min damage). Add that to the reduced damage at range of the suppressor and you have an extreme handicap but something that might be useful for CQB. The benefit to this is that because the suppressed/no tracer shooter must be at pretty close range, the chances of finding them are higher!
Yeah, that's why I wrote "depends on a weapon". I'm not sure this is intended, because there are factional discrepancies, not weapon discrepancies. For example, VS full auto scout rifle is nearly perfectly silent when suppressed, you barely hear it 2m from you, while NC and TR full auto scouts are almost as loud as unsuppressed. So I don't think it's intended, and it should be looked at. Maybe, but not always this information will tell you shot from where, it's not likely to provide more information than hit markers.
How about adv. Suppressor which lowers muzzle velocity even further by the same amount and removes the tracers completely?
