[Suggestion] Remove the helicopter physics for air

I recall before PS2 went live how the Devs spend a lot of time talking up the Air game how it was "not going to be easy" or "something you can jump into directly; you need to spend hours to learn to fly". Well that's now how it turned out in the end and we ended up with PS1s flying tanks again (i.e. a lfying plane is simply a tank that can also go up in air).

Now to make the Airgame more interesting here's a simple adjustment which I think would not only spice things up a bit but increase the skill element a lot more to Air play in general. There would probably need to be some weapon adjustments to tie in with it but I'm more interested in the physics as a starting point.

First of all remove the helicopter mode from all airplanes; if a plane stands still in air it should fall no matter how much vertical thrust they use. Secondly all planes have to be above a certain speed (let the frames modify this so hoover frame lowers the requirement) or they start to fall down (albeit at a longer arc). Lets say ESFs have to be going at 130km / hour (Reaver, +10 for Mosq. and -10 for Scythe to add a bit of faction flavour) to remain at the same height, Libs needs to do 100 and Galaxies 50 (the later two being more ground pounding focused and hence able to sustain lower speeds for bombing/drop pod runs).

How does this change game play? Well for starters there's no more "sit still and shot things" mode any more as the plane is falling out of the air! Secondly for AvA combat you now need to work on adjusting your speed with the enemy rather then go turret mode hoovering until one dies (you can also go turret mode to start dropping, accelerate away and try to get around the enemy this way) etc. The frames and plane specifics also means that a Lib can for example decide to slow down to 75 forcing ESFs to either circle around or risk going past it/under it. ESF pilots can also play with speeding up/slowing down/free falling to shake of someone on their tail while having to maintain a certain speed not to fall out of the sky.

For the ground pounders it means a Lib is not going to be parked over spawn or ESF sitting still hover mode trying to kill them but rather they have to make runs going in and going out again. It becomes more along the lines of Stukka attack runs (dive bomb in) rather then Apache helicopters sitting below a ridge and waiting.

Downsides? Well Lock on weapons becomes potentially more used (easier to use vs. moving target over nose gun/flak) which can be solved by simply rebalancing of lock on time/damage/fly distance. Obviously it becomes harder to fly esp. for new people (I'd expect many pilots ending up crashing by going to slow) and of course people would need to re-learn a bit of flying.

Anyway, it is unlikely(I'd say winning the top price on lotto kind of chance) to ever happen but as a thought experiement what do you think of the general concept? Numbers etc. are more for general idea then a calculated exact number for balance.

No thank you. If I wanted to fly like that I would play Battlefield or one of the 5 million other more "realistic" flight sims that are already on the market. PS2 has a unique flight style with its own challenges to learn and if you think you can jump right into flying and compete with good pilots you're 100% wrong.

lol nope, what do you think keeps the small amount of pilots that haven't already quit here?

Nope, i play on the ground 99% of the time and even i know thats a bad idea... If that gets put in the sky will be empty as the one thing that made flying different in this game would be gone. Also, there designed to be able to hover seeing as the thrusters can rotate...
This is just another "Liberators too OP plz nerf" thread...

All the easy kills from rocket pods and noob aircraft flying around? You don't really think they stick around cause their ESF can hover do you? lol.

Lol, infantry wont even render in time to get any shots off.

The elite pilots that haven't quit already can go f**k themselves. They don't want realistic flying because it would be too hard for them to farm hundreds of certs per hour like they do right now, not because it's something unique compared to Battlefield or other shooters.

Unfortunately realistic physics can't be implemented in this game without major changes to the game engine's code, they simply did not make the engine able to simulate realistic physics so we will never have that in PS2, at least that's what I read a long time ago on the forum.

You realize that those "elite" pilots spend most of their time killing the people farming. I would love to see the QQ if all the ace A2A pilots stopped culling the farmers for a day or two.

Absolutely not.
ESFs are the fastest vehicles in the game, but relative to their pitching speeds, roll rates, and acceleration rates, they are not fast enough. Plus, the effort would just be another step towards trying to become Battlefield in Space, which we all know that this game can't ever pull off completely, nor should it try to.
Except for the Tankbuster, Liberator weapons rely on sustained presence to be effective. Unless there would be some massive changes to the vehicle and weapon mechanics as well as the way AA performs, this would butcher the vehicle.
The Galaxy, or rather the way most people use it, would be the least affected by the changes. However, there are a few skywhalers that use dark magics to turn their vehicles into ramming monsters, and I don't know if they'd take too kindly to the changes.

And this is all not to mention the game's inherent problems of map size and rendering.

You know what you really want out of the air game is Luftrausers physics.

as a tanker i'd be happy to see this , as well as i'd be happy to see empty sky after it .

Honestly i would agree to remove that style of flight but it doesnt fit with the game. They have landing pads not strips. Also the galaxy would be able to Hover do to the fact it resembles the Osprey Gunship ALOT, and the Osprey Gunship can hover

yeah people play to buff their stats, that's clearly who pilots are ( other than daddy)

most, yes most, "aces" or whatever the hell you want to call them play to get better, just like any other player in the game, pilots don't play this for a flight sim

Nope, PS2 currently has an amazing and simply unique flying mechanic that you can't find anywhere else minus a space sim. Just look at it as if you are practicing for Star Citizen as PS2 flight mechanics are very similar to a zero G environment. Not to mention with the limited rendering range that aircraft suffer through we are dependent on being able to hover in an area to apply proper A2G coverage.

I'd believe you if 95% of the best pilots didn't use rocket pods, lol. Face it if they changed the way ESFs flew all these Solo cert farmers would flip out because they can no longer abuse the fact that most players have no idea how the ******** flight physics work in this game.

Terrible idea. Leave my ESF alone. Stop adding overpowered aimless weapons. Don't mess with my afterburners. Stop playing with my mag size. Just leave it alone.

Got it?

Ok well you can nerf the crap out of any kind of locking weapons and that's one change i would endorse whole-heartedly.

You are allowed to reduce the hitbox of the reaver by about 10%.

Changing the flight mechanics would be a disaster. Why not just play something else if you dont like the flight mechanics?

It could never work if for no other reason that the fact of how long it takes infantry to render when flying quickly, you pretty much have to slow way down to get infantry to render in large battles.

I said in another topic which that is all the problem with the air game of PS2. I think funny when someone who call himself a "pilot" or "ace" come here defend the actual scenario, since all you have to do is learn repeat the same movement everytime to be a good "pilot". Fly in PS2 isn't "fly", if you understand me.

I quit PS2 the 1st time because the air. I spend money, certs, time, and when I learned what "fly" here was, I never came back. Now I did another chance because the mission and alert features, what I found really fun, but the air game still discourage me, and I'm feeling which soon I will quit again, because everytime the "air" call me and I realize how bad it is. Then I logoff and go play another game where I can really fly, some sim, some arcade, but they follow the logic of fly. And where I can fly with a controller. Because I can play better soldier games than the chaotic PS2 "spam until conquer".

Just for one example, the ESFs particularities, which the PS2 site say, are totally a bs, because your Mosquito isn't the real most fast ESF, since any other nation (even a Liberator, ahaha) can chase you, so forget "hit-and-run-flying-low" tactics. And you think your Scythe can move in the sky so agile which any of the other ESFs can aim you? You're wrong, any can do the same.

Air here have no tactic (as solo, but it's not on discuss here), no pessoal gameplay. You can't build your ship and imply a fly mode because just exist 1. Learn and accept that 1 or give up the idea of "fly" in PS2. Or do as I do: insist with your tactics and builds, fail a lot of times, then quit.

[still improving my english, sorry]

considering the "best" pilots kill the morons with rocketpods I'd be thankful if I were you

This is the kind of ridiculous sentiment that really grinds my gears, as Peter Griffin would say.

Tankers go around just farming infantry all day. I know because i play infantry and i drive tanks and i have played a lot of PS2, so i know. Ok? Tank is the easiest most overpowered vehicle in the game, and if you dont think so its either because you are bad at tanking, or you have never used any of the other vehicles.

You have AA options on your tank. Options which are very effective, and options that im guessing you probably dont use. i don't use them either, but i dont get frustrated when an ESF kills my tank because i didnt have an AA gun on. That is if i cant figure out a way to OHK said ESF with my main cannon.

These kind of statements don't add anything to the discussion and really just make you look ignorant about the game.

Play everything. Play infantry and see how much more often you die to tanks than any other vehicle.

Play tanks and see how pretty much the only thing that can reliably kill you is airplanes.

Fly a liberator and see how you are a magnet for every flak source lock-on and basilisk within render range. Not to mention how scary ESFs are.

Fly an ESf and see how hard it is to fight when every flak source within render range is on you, when g2a locks from invisible guys hit for 40% damage and how tank rounds and dalton rounds OHK you.

Play everything, as i have done, and then come back and tell me tanks need any kind of help at all. I'll give you a hint. They don't.

I'm not a pilot, Im not a tanker. Im not an infantry-man. I fight for my empire using ALL of the tools i have been given.