prowler against ESF.

It's easier to Get ESF kills in a Vanguard than a Magrider. Magriders can barely aim up. Don't Believe me huh than why do the Vanguards main cannons have more ESF kills than the magriders.

I looked at the stats. All of the Prowlers cannons are outperforming the Magriders with the exception of the Magrider AP. And even then the Titan AP and Titan HEAT has a signifigant margin over the Magriders AP cannon and the Prowlers. There is nothign wrong witth the Prowler if anything the Vanguard needs a nerf and they need to keep evertyhing else the same. And Btw its easier to land 2 Prowler AP shots on an ESF than to land 2 Magrider PC (HEAT) shells. They are both good comparisons since they both take 2 shots to kill.

They're the best at killing air yes ............. here's the point a lot of people seem to miss ......... they're best at killing tanks in a close range attack with no cover for either of the tanks to use. Any semi intelligent tank drivers from TR or VS (I'm VS) don't engage prowlers in the open at close range, on flat terrain.

You either use your increased speed\mobility to get behind them, or engage them while you have cover nearby. Wait for them to hit their shield, use the cover while their shield is up, then just take them out after it's run down.

On paper the Vanguard is the best for tank vs tank engagements, in reality I'm not so sure. Their lack of speed\acceleration means that they can't disengage an enemy tank when in unfavourable conditions, or use cover so effectively. Against an intelligent enemy that is a big disadvantage. How much of a disadvantage is open to debate but I don't think it's as simple as just saying the Vanguard is the best for tank vs tank.

Prowlers don't deserve to take down ESF's in one shot. You get 2 shots at the most numerous, easy to kill targets in the game (infantry). Anyone with half a brain wouldn't trade that huge farming advantage for being able to one shot an ESF, which is harder and takes a lot more skill.

So, no ........ you don't deserve it and your self interest and faction bias is making you look stupid.

The other Magrider weapons will be outperformed. Thats for the simple fact that they take 2 shots to kill. Which is kinda what this thread is about. At least you guys have an option of a single shot weapon.

And where we talking about comparing the Magrider to the Vangaurd. Nope.

A Stock PRowler is better at killing air than a stock Magrider going by stats I don't see the problem here.

Now you're getting ridiculous.

When you started this discussion, you said that prowlers feel discouraged to shoot ESFs, that's because they are not as good as the Vanguard in those terms. In the same way, Vanguards feel discouraged in killing infantry because they are not as good as the Prowler in killing them.
So if I go by your statement of "The bad statistics are because they dont shoot much infantry." then basically i can conclude that Prowlers are as good as killing ESFs, their stats are only bad because they do not shoot ESFs much.

Leaving everything aside, the Vanguard still can not take down air reliably.
If you want I can come on TS, and prove it to you. You can choose your best Vanguard loadout, and try to take me down with the main-cannon, and I can come in with my best Mossie loadout. Kill me once and I'll admit that Vanguards need a nerf against air.

Prowlers are better at taking down:-

Anything that is not a MBT or ESF.

The ESFs that are usually killed by Vanguard are hovering or coming straight on within turret angle.

I would not mind a nerf on ESFs, as long as i get a buff on infantry farming.

Skyguard against Liberator


This is pathetic, nerf air.

And how do you assume that it is a stock Prowler. There is no way to discern those kills with or without lockdown.

You can't discuss the impact of only one aspect without taking into account all related aspects.

Yes, a prowler AP shell does not one-shot ESFs. That doesn't mean it is weaker against air. So no, I do not agree with your suggestion to buff the damage of prowler AP against ESFs.

The Prowler is fantastic at shooting down ESF and Libs , you just need lockdown and an AP turret. I can park next to an ammo tower and clay pigeon shoot enemy reavers out the sky with ease. Its not as if you have much recoil on the second shot.

I dont think this is an issue of L2P, more buff my faction?

OK I will correct you, since you asked.

lock down makes the bullet velocity the highest, by a relatively small margin... combine that with the fact that it requires the tank to be dead still, inviting all mother f@ckers to shoot a barrage up your @ss. And then the fact that it still requires 2 hits, with a gun that has recoil (lessened, but still prevalent)

So now do you see that TR's "mobile turret" isn't that mobile... all the advantages the prowler has, comes from the lock down (when talking AA), and lock down is the absolutely best tool for farming a pegged in spawn room, but it's the most common reason that a prowler dies... being stationary to the point that you're actually NAILED to the ground is such a huge downside that the reasons people don't like prowlers is because they are always at render range, trying to deny an area - they cannot, and does not clear areas.

So I would put the maggie on the same page as prowler against ESF's, not better, not worse, just differently bad.

Liberators are so OP now that it's a freakin shame... I would be (more) fine with them being able to farm tanks as they do now, IF they really feared ESF's, but as is now an esf needs to spend sooo much time/ammo/resources and attention to ONE lib, that it's sick.


ESF should hunt ESF, libs, galaxies
Libs should hunt tanks, infantry
and tanks shouldn't be a major deterent to ESF's, because ESF's shouldn't be a major deterent to tanks....
So while I think maggie/prowler are bad at anti-ESF, I think libs, esf's and vanguards should be changed to fit the above mentioned scenario

The only roll of an A2A loaded esf is to engage A2G esf's... *shivers from the stupidity*

It's a game of Rock paper scissors... An ESF pilot can take out your prowler with Rockpods sure... but one misstake and *BOOM* Dead... If ESF worry you so much get a Walker ontop then if you "only" get one hit with your Magicall-highspeed-railgun-tank you can easily do follow up shots and kill it...

Magrider is just diffrent... Thats some high power ******** right there... Cause its mobile? Yeah strafing in 20k/h makes a big difference to a pilot with a highly mobile ESF swooping down in 210k/h Better to be locked down and ABLE to shoot back than frantically looking for a hill to lean against b4 you get killed WITHOUT any possibility to even shot back.... (with the worst drop and slowest projectile...)

meh I don't agree...

You mention rock-paper-scissors but there's no element of it, you mentioned misstakes, but that isn't rock-paper-scissors. And the "one misstake and *BOOM* " is exactly what doesn't apply to the prowler because of the 2 hit kill. It's more the case with the magrider, it can clip an ESF that makes a bad misstake, but the prowler can more reliably hit them in a normal fashion (albeit not really efficient).
That's why I said that I think they are both bad at it, and ok let's say the maggie is a bit worse and it would make no difference 'cause both are sucky.

Saying that the prowler has a "Magicall-highspeed-railgun-tank" shows that you really don't know what the prowler is about....It's just wrong, and people spreading that misinformation is harming the state of the forums.

and the maggie doesn't have the worst drop, it has the lowest projectile-velocity but it doesn't have a magical stat that alters "gravity" on it's projectile. It's one factor that makes the result a higher "drop" not two baked into one massive dual drop, and it's velocity (tested and true, try it with HE if you want they all have the same velocity and drop the same).

And yes, being able to move erratic, in all directions is VERY usefull while dodging lolpods, you're fooling yourself if you keep thinking it's not.

The same argument you used against me, about getting a secondary walker ontop works just as well on the magrider (and vanguard), so it's a null argument only used to agitate me I guess.


You might also have noticed that I didn't ask for any buff or anything for the prowler, nor the magrider, I was however stating that they are both bad at it.
However, I might think they could use a buff against ESF's if the ESF's role will keep being an all-round A2G platform (which they probably will)

A point I didn't mention but does speak to the prowlers' favour is the anti-lib capabilities, but that's moot since the Libs are so obviously overpowered that it fears no tank or other air-platform (a pack of ESF's doesn't count, since it can also be a pack of libs)

Seriously your complaining about THIS? really I've had amazing prowler gunners gun down whole squads of esf's, the extra shot gives you that extra chance of hitting. Apparently you dont understand a Skill Ceiling. Lets not even go into when a AT Prowler is locked down, talk about way better at AA then the Vanguard because you have faster shells, less bullet drop and more shots.

Moin

What you want to cert is anchormode. While you are right that the vanguard is the most effective tank against ESFs, an anchored prowler isn't that far behind. You basically get 4 shots with higher velocity against the one shot of the vanguard. If the vanguard couldn't OHK ESFs or the prowler could, it would become really unfair.

I would definitely go with this idea IF, vanguard and magriders are allowed to divide their one big canon into 2 weaker canons.

And their damage against infantry would be slightly increased, so that they can one shot non-flak infantry.

Titan heat damage = 1700
Divide it by 2 = 850
Buff 150 more damage against infantry = 1000 (only infantry)

Same for the magriders, their damage values should be buffed even higher since they have weaker cannons.
And prowlers can have their one-shot ESF cannon.

First of all I don't think the Prowler is in dire need of a buff in that department. But some of the arguments being used by some people really is quite hilarious. For instance the people whining about the Vanguard scoring noticably lower than the Mag/Prow for infantry kills, without considering the fact that the NC use the Lightning far more for AI duties than the others. Or that the Prowler is actually at a slight disadvantage against certain infantry targets (namely the ones using Flak 5 and using cover).

The ESFs are fantastic at avoiding the P2-AP shells, you just need to not hover and stay mobile. They can fly around all day and shoot Prowlers, as long as they pay attention to their surroundings (like everyone should). I cannot believe people that just ignore tank shells flying right past their aircraft. Any pilot being hit twice by a Prowler, either seriously messed up and/or got lazy. It's not as if they can just not move in completely straight lines, and thus are practically impossible to hit

I dont mind if all mtb got buffed,they are all in a weak state as they are.Also more costumization the better.

Either make Prowler able to shoot both cannons at once or OHKO an Esf with one shot. It doesn't make sense that a paperweight aircraft can stand a hit from any cannon. This would just punish bad and greedy pilots that generally just hoverfarm at some place and reward good tankers that can lead and predict movements of ESFs taking in account how unpredictable they generally are. I am fine with libs (maybe make ot 6HKO if it is 7HKO from prowler right now) even though I think they overbuffed them slightly.

But I absolutely hate ESFs because I can't punish them drastically even if they are generally playing stupidly. One hit just makes them aware of their mistake and they can just run away and get back to deal with that tank later since how easy it is to them to just lolpod the hell out of a tank when they know what they do. I would never rage about getting one shot by a vanguard or magrider if it wasn't for the fact I can't do the exact same thing with my max certed prowler.

And I see here the myth of one being able to land two quick shots with anchorder prowler, I tell you that it isn't as easy as the first shot always recoils your gun to a different position so you have to have your time to set the aim back which in ESFs case is unlikely unless they are still hovering after getting hammered by the first strike. With libs, sundies, galaxies etc it's not that big of a deal ofc due to the size difference.

Wait, you want to retain the AI dominance and gain equal dominance against ESF's? Ok, how about we increase the Vanguard's AI killing ability?

Or how about you lose your AI dominance? Sounds fair.