PPA would have to be nerfed inorder to balance it.

So, why not improve the other AI weapons to act like a PPA on the TR and NC MBTs, while improving the Magrider's capabilities?

ppa with recoil would almost be a useless weapon
the slow projectiles already make up for it

You don't seem to know what a slow projectile is, you can outrun or out drive it so its hardly slow, and its machine gun speed and large clip means even if you're just complaining about your lack of aim you can just spray and pray and get tons of kills for free.

<sigh> of course, the vanguard flys like a bullet over cliffs at 200mph, did you know it can even take off, we dont use libs we fly our vanguards around with the help of pixies.

Come back to the thread when you've regained your sanity please.

hey there, you start this argument and i would like to know more about what a "slow projectile" is. care to explain?

No it would be something like the deci say that you can slowly watch travel over and need to properly compensate for, the PPA is a machine gun of relatively fast moving shots, yes its not instant but its hardly enough to cause any problems until you go beyond a 100-200m

So you think no evidence and claiming something with a afterburner that doesn't get slowed by rocks is slower than a huge brick of a tank is the even handed way of doing things?

Do you think this type of bullying makes you look right?

So, it would seem the difference between ES AI secondaries lies in function rather than just performance, and you just can't buff the Canister and the Marauder into long-range effectiveness. Secondary weapons aside, I'm not sure that differences between MBT performance at infantry farming (all HE shells have the same velocity according to the wiki, and slower supernova projectiles complement no-bullet drop on the PPA with limited indirect fire) justify the lack of a long-range option for TR and NC. If the premise of common long-range anti-infantry secondaries is acceptable (which, looking at previous nerfs, seems unlikely), just scrap the Canister and the Marauder: I've already read about HE Enforcers and Banshee variants which sound pretty good.

I DEARLY wish vehicle hacking was in game. this way your "charts" would be more hashed out. I can almost promise you that Vanu players would use this tank better than your average NC player simply because we are used to working with weapons/vehicles that are not the best. I'm gonna go ahead and say that those drivers need more practice.

And before you start name dropping people I don't care about individual skill level. I care about how the group as a whole can use this vehicle. I can tell you from personal experience that the shield on a vanny is an "I Win" button.

Afterburner/Magburner doesn't count towards it's speed, it is a special ability and has to be equipped and can be replaced by other abilities. So yes it is slower.

Also, it is clear you are firing blind in this argument since you made the general statement about rocks not slowing a magrider. Whilst in game shows it is quite dependent on the size of the rock, the incline, and there are things like those glowly plants of Hossin (for example) that will dead stop a magrider but a vanguard and prowler will roll right over them.

Ok see bit of testing, mag is about 7k/ph slower at max speed but reaches that speed about 2x faster (rough estimate there) than the vanguard and can get to 100 k/ph (about 43 faster than the vanguard), mag also seems to have less problems climbing hills getting slowed much less than the vanguard, and of course strafing allows for easy avoidance of obstacles again helping make up for the very minor difference in top speed. Prowler fasted at about 60k/ph max speed and gets to that speed faster than the vanguard (though slower than mag speeds up) however like vanguard turning makes it clunky and hills slow it a lot.

So, while I was wrong that the mag is fastest without its burner its easy to see why you would think this as rarely will you be fighting at full speed its mainly how fast people can accelerate away to avoid shots or get into cover that matters and the mag is king of this, speeds up quickly and burner allows for huge boosts of speed to allow you to go from stop to incredible speeds for a tank very quickly.

So.. if you guys want you can have your tank go 7 k/ph faster but in exchange you need it to accelerate a lot slower and lose the strafing, oh and the afterburner that has to go too or at least only work when you are already over 40 k/ph, you happy to do that for 7 k/ph? if not I'm happy for the vanguard to lose about 7 k/ph to strafe , accelerate faster and get a afterburner.

Although I really would like that change, I wasn't being serious with the upper half.
For whatever reason the marauder DOES have recoil though - when you finally found the ONE angle that goes over the cover, but not so far the guy behind it doesn't get hurt the damn thing pulls up and you have to look for that one pixel to aim at again. Unfortunately your victim will have moved....

If you really want a turret you can have it - you will lose the ability to strafe though, since its a direct consequence of your tanks design. If I were you I wouldn't do that trade.
And the magrider is not inferior. At least not that I'd have noticed fighting them.
Killing PPA spammers isn't much of a challenge 1v1, but nobody forced them to use their AI secondary.
That I have no trouble dispatching a big part of your tanks, which for some unknown reason decide to use an AI secondary, is NOT proof that your tank is underperfoming btw. because FPC and Saron still give me a lot of trouble - the 30% that still use that combo.

Ever heard of gear skipping?

VS weapons that spam orbs of any kind in general have another advantage not often talked about. As they fly towards you at certain distances they are bright and large enough to obscure view of the person (in rarer cases the vehicle) shooting. As you are strafing to avoid orbs and attempting to return fire it makes it difficult to aim. To make matters worse orbs often deal splash damage, so they don't have to be aimed quite as accurately.

Bit more testing, with the racer chasis the prowler will hit 70k/ph and accelerates at about the speed a mag normally does,a mag will hit about 65 k/ph (only 5 less than the fastest now) and takes about 1-1.5s to reach 40, thats pretty nifty speed (oh and burner gives you about 99 k/ph in 1-1.5s as well though it could be faster but the counter doesn't go beyond 99). The vanguards acceleration goes up to about that of a prowler (which is nice) and get about 66-7 k/ph top speed.

SO without the racer chasis the mag is indeed slower at top speed but acceleration burner and strafing more than make up for this, with the racer the speed difference is almost unnoticeable however the mag still gets to strafe use a burner for almost instant max speed and accelerate faster even without that.

So.. if you think your tanks to slow and clunky maybe your just using the right upgrade, seems with the racer it becomes the best for speed, yes its 5 k/ph slower than the fastest but I'd say the huge number of advantages more than makes up for it.

So now that I've pretty much proven the mag is the best of the bunch your going to try and claim an advanced tactic makes up for it? even then the difference isn't enough to match the burners ability for almost instant maximum speed, then you add in all the other advantages the mag has and you realise it really is a awesome tank

Er... really your going to deny testing now? feel free to go and do some testing yourself, yes that gear skipping exploit helps make up for the horrible acceleration of the vanguard without the racer chassis but you still get slowed a LOT going up hills, have much slower turning and can't get to full speed from being stationary in about 1-1.5s.

Its sad that you just keep insulting me, I decided to check the facts on what I said, found out I was wrong about the mag being fasted but discovered these other things, and all you do instead of doing any testing or trying to offer any proof is insult me.

You can chose to believe it or not but anybody who wants to test it feel free to go and do it themselves, the times for acceleration aren't exact as I'm not doing a full review of speed but its definitely not as much as 2s to reach 40k/ph on a mag / top speed with burners, and the mag definitely has the best acceleration which combined with strafing makes for a godly machine.

There is no reason why it cannot have a turret AND be a strafe tank. Heck, stabilization was supposed to be the benefit to make up for having a fixed cannon (nothing to do with a balance for having strafe), and yet all the other tanks got it so it is only fair that we get to get our main cannon turreted without receiving any kind of nerf in another area. Even with a turret it is not like the main cannon's stats will change and it will stop being inferior, it will just be giving it what it should have had at launch. Also, just a little FYI... the other 2 tanks can strafe simple by having a turret and rotating it so your side armor is facing the enemy. Sure the side armor is weaker, but the speed in which you can circle an enemy by going forward is leaps and bounds faster then a magrider strafing which makes any argument regarding magrider being some "uber strafe" tank, very ignorant.

You don't tank much, do you?
Yes, of course I can "strafe" by facing you sideways and going forward/backward. Unfortunately that means I'm offering you the biggest target area my tank can provide, except maybe by flipping and presenting my top/bottom instead. Moreover you seem to assume "strafing" is simply going left/right. Unfortunately nothing stops a magrider from going BOTH left/right AND forward/backward, giving it 8 main directions to move. Lets eliminate forward, because who the **** drives INTO enemy fire, and you still have 7 left, while your enemy has only two and is also offering a bigger target area. Those 7 directions get even MORE annoying when the Magrider isn't standing on a plain street but on a hill or something, because depending on the direction he moves the height changes too making it an even harder target. I'm pretty sure that the Magriders strafing is accellerating a lot faster than my tank.
Also, yes my Prowler drives faster than your Magrider strafes, but that is not gonna help me win. Because the Magrider can TURN faster than I can drive around it, and will still always point his gun and front armor to me. Quite possibly he will ignore me running around him, accellerate for a few seconds, get behind me and then SHOOT MY UNPROTECTED *** FOR BEING MORONIC ENOUGH TO LET HIM GET BEHIND ME. On what server do you play that this seems a viable approach to an enemy tank???

And regarding the turret and strafing: There are reasons for that.
First and foremost: Balance! You can shoot your main gun in every direction while being able to move in every direction? You don't even have to actually EVADE, just move unpredictably and most non-lockons will miss anyway. Actually, the only reason why you would even want that is to be able to magburn to safety faster by facing 90 degrees away from your enemies.
Second: How the hell will you steer that thing? A/D for strafing, mouse for the turret... Q/E for turning the tank? Well it's possible I suppose but that sounds atrocious.
Hmm... on second thought, take that turret. I think it will actually make the Magrider a lot weaker.

1. I tank quite a bit and with all 3 factions.
2. Going forward and backwards is NOT strafing on the magrider. Facing a target with your weapon whilst moving left to right is strafing.
3. The magburner forces you straight into enemy fire unless you present your rear which is not only the weakest point but you cannot fire back
4. With a turret you have just as many directions of movement as the magrider except you can strafe at ALL of them, the magrider cannot.
5. Forward movement is so much faster then the magrider strafe it makes the fact you are presenting a larger target meaningless. So yes, in most areas in planetside 2 circling the enemy whilst firing with a vanny/prowler is a very valid and useful tactic.
6. Unless the magrider is at long range from the dumbfires it will not dodge them, and the rest of the tank is designed for close to med range so the current strafing on the magrider... like no bullet drop is just about worthless in practice as a trait.

All in all it seems it is in fact you who has little experience in mechanized warfare of Planetside 2.