Planetside 2 in year 2012 (territory objectives) & Now

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by karlooo, Apr 5, 2024.

  1. karlooo



    This video is truly, something that I watch with absolute wonder. Just speechless. Watch it on full screen. Apparently the Youtuber was running the game using NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680, which I read was a 2GB graphics card lol.
    But I was listening to the video more closely and noticed some interesting details:

    -Apparently, at the time you obtained resources by capturing a base with a system similar to what we have now, but for your own character (certs, green, blue, resource, nanites). Based on the map it looked like it was faction orientated, like everyone got the income determinant on how their team was doing, so resource income could be cut off towards an entire team. And you got a personal bonus if your team was in minority.
    -Tech lab provided troop transports to the faction (Sunderers, Galaxy), so you could pretty much cut off logistical AMS transports from a team.
    -AMP station was just a super fortification at the time, didn't hear it having any ability in the YT video.
    -Biolabs provided a boost to speed you capture surrounding bases
    -Instant action (Hotspot) acted as a spawn option ability (30 min CD), so it wasn't random. But unsure if it was set up by leadership as a call for reinforcements or if the game did it itself.

    ________

    The original design of the game is very interesting, especially the first point on how your character's cert income, blue/green resource income, Nanite income seemed to have been determinant on the territory that your faction controlled....
    It's very interesting getting introduced to this design choice, because I have seen many people complain about territories not holding strategical value. And giving out all these suggestions, on how to give this, that bonus but now I fully understand.
    Because, the game has gotten to such a state, where, well actually for a long time, where nobody cares about territory control.
    When I first got engaged into Planetside 2, I started off as a construction player and remember being infuriated when my team was mindlessly fighting in the Biolab or Crown zone, while I was trying to set up a position to counter an enemy push somewhere else, with nobody arriving to help. I just thought to myself what type of psycho would want to spend hours in a 200 player Biolab fight, you can't even orientate in that mess.
    And it's gotten to a point now where neither I care. I don't do construction anymore, but it's so ridiculous now that nobody cares even if the base we're fighting for is getting cut off at WG and getting warned in chat dozen times, I am just where the fight is, getting some certs, that's all I care about and we will eventually get pushed out of here, then I will move somewhere else... Why should I care?
    ____

    This is why I really admire the original design because it links territory control to your characters income, the certs, the nanites, blue green... And therefore, automatically the territory holds value to every single player. Maybe even motivates to sit and defend, as they want the blue or green resource, you know :D (So, lattice links can finally go, no use anymore, nobody likes it)


    But obviously outside of prime time this would get abused, and I came up with an idea here. I believe this is so easy to solve. So, you know how we have a warmup phase, which is pretty much pre alert and then the alert is the actual competition?
    My idea here is that the real continents like Esamir, Indar, Amerish, Hossin, should be locked out while there isn't an alert, and during the warmup phase or waiting phase, you would have a continent open or multiple smaller continents like Koltyr.
    Where territory control will not matter, you will gain basic currency for fighting, and it would represent this battle simulation preparation for the actual war with the enemy. (But of course you will be fighting real players on Koltyr but but to give insight or for immersion, it is like a simulation, a made-up battle where you train yourself, you live and die to be a soldier, you live to fight).
    And once the server has enough population it announces the alert. Like Indar is under attack, prepare for battle! And uses the steel rain mechanism where it pulls everyone by force out of Koltyr after a certain amount of time and deploys them to Indar, and the alert instantly starts. The real battle has commenced, where you fight over territory control and gain resources the other forms of resources to further upgrade your character, which is linked to territory control. This would be something...
    ____

    I also liked the Tech Plant design, where it provided the entire team AMS logistical transports.
    Because I can just imagine what mayhem it would pursue if a team lost this. If you can imagine, you would lose access to transports, then everybody would start pulling tanks. It would artificially trigger this high alert state, like we lost a key base and have to take it back at all costs, and the enemy holding tech plant would have to defend from waves of tanks. It could be the craziest experience.
    Biolab, AMP station, I don't know... I mainly wanted to bring up the idea of gaining your personal income through territory control to actually give motivation to fight for it, rather than somewhere which holds no value but are only there to literally grind one form of resource,
    I also noticed the Kill cam... That was epic. (e.g. 5:40, 8:15, 10:00) Where did that killcam go? It follows the target while your character is falling sideways. We have this boring red highlight now, nobody likes it.

    And motion blur may be necessary to add back because it makes the high graphics experience bearable. I remember you could have played this game with 20 FPS and the motion blur would make the image look smooth somehow, it was enjoyable to stick around, it wasn't a painful experience.
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  2. aversi0n

    It could be interesting from a strategical standpoint, to connect or even substitute the Lattice Links with Construction in a more dynamic way. Not like on Oshur, where you have fixed Construction Sites. More like quickly destroyable player bases can create energy nodes to enforce already existing facilities.

    It probably will never happen and I can understand it. Since Counter-Strike, Infantry K/D remains to be the most important factor for many players, the continent map doesn’t even exist. Of course some outfits still have a big picture in mind, they execute steel rain or perform Galaxy drops in crucial situations. They cut off enemies, when Lattice Links allow this strategy. In my opinion a minority of players, who do not justify the high risk / low reward ratio for such fundamental modifications.

    PS: The video you posted is advertisement, maybe was recorded on dedicated machines. Most people have never played with so romantic graphics settings. Today shadows and K/D still wouldn't go well together...
  3. karlooo


    Connect Construction with the game how? Or I will start off like this... I would say the territories should hold more value first, before construction having any connection to the territorial bases, because without the territories having any value, we will still be at square one, nobody will care.
    For example, I already mentioned the currency part, but also the old Tech plant design, cutting that off is pretty much game over for the entire team, without AMS transports you can't capture territories, and construction would for sure be utilized here to fortify such a key position beforehand. Just to give another perspective of adding value to bases. So, one way or the other, territories must hold value first.

    But I do wonder if that resource income system could work for both the player and the current outfit asset separately. Though Outfit Assets are another element which holds questionable value. I can't speak for leadership roles. But from my perspective it doesn't make work easier for them, it just makes them lazier...
    Like the outfit assets should stay for sure because you have the real assets there such as Colossus, but it can be heavily simplified.... You don't need 3 resource types when you can pretty much trade them. I would simply make outfits contain one currency type, and each base the outfit captures would add a one-time currency reward instead of continuous income. That's all...

    Constuction is in a shattered state right now. Many ways of sabotaging it directly or indirectly (accidentally), and I was thinking it could be limited towards outfit assets, but that's the last step because once again without territories holding value then there is no point... But sadly, at the same time the devs concluded to dump construction, not the ignore it type and wait for opportunity, but destroy it, form it into the sole purpose of being a money grab. And I can't imagine them fixing it, they added like 20 more structures, all of which would need to be removed as it is such a bad design, but they aren't willing to refund, so the construction role may be done for...
    I wanted to expand further on construction here, with interesting topics of how it could change to minimalize performance deterioration, griefing method opportunities w/ shapes and size, to counter blocking attempts, limiting it to the outfit asset, so it can be implemented in the territorial bases, instead of on the outskirts. But there's no point when it's in a decaying rotting state.

    With your last sentence, I guess you meant shadow graphics. I have always wanted the devs to standardize the graphics, no more advantages. Shadows it's up to the player, it's whatever, ambient occlusion is worse but I personally would want both medium and low graphics option removed from the game. The visual advantages there are so brutal, that it is a necessity to be able to compete, and this is a hideous advertisement to the game and its also absolute pain. One of the selling points where the unique visuals, colors. So, I am probably going to be repeating this multiple times with hope that the devs will notice, they should bring back motion blur. You do not need medium or low graphics if the game had motion blur. Even if your PC ran high graphics with 20 FPS or more, motion blur would make the experience bearable, cause it still won't run medium nor low graphics any better in terms of perspective from one's eye. I know this from personal experience. As a complete fact of using a trash tier PC once. So, Medium & Low graphics options should be removed, once motion blur gets added back. But anyways I am starting to question their recent graphical enhancements, it looks worse than before. I found an old test recording from 2020, and it ran substantially better and even looked better back then, than game now. Don't exactly know why.
  4. aversi0n

    The old design was developed before Construction was introduced. Now Construction is a major part of the game. People, including me, have spent much time to unlock all the different elements and incorporate them in their play style. Weakening this effort by basically reverting the game to an earlier state is not a good idea. I would like to see Construction having a greater strategical value on the continent map. Somehow!? In return, base longevity could be reduced to make it a more dynamic, fast-paced experience for all players. However it is not necessary to go into more detail, because Devs will not touch this topic anyway.

    With standardised graphics, you will eventually lose the K/D players. They are here, because the game visually can be set to the ugliest level of ugliness. Fun fact, since 2013, I play on my AMD Phenom II X6 1090T CPU. At the moment graphics and texture quality are set to high, the rest is set to low or tuned off, render distance is reduced. The game looks nice and sharp in 1920x1080 and runs quite good. It might explain my questionable K/D ratio, but the PlanetSide2 art style and atmosphere always were important to me.
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  5. karlooo

    That's a good thing. These types of players are the ones who hound out everybody from this game, due to forming such a repulsive environment. Like as I said earlier the game has gone to such extremes that to be able to compete now, low graphics are a necessity.... That is what they have turned this game into... It makes no sense to me why the devs would treat this audience or player base as their most valuable, when they are literally killing their own game.
    These players also stalk leadership roles and harass them BTW. I have been experiencing this non-stop on Cobalt. The leadership roles! Who without, the game is dead. And ones who put most energy and dedication into the game. Imagine that.

    No, you don't understand what I am trying to show. Construction has no place in this current game, the game would eventually have to be redesigned. And my ultimate point is, as you may have noticed in the video, most updates that we receive throughout the years are actually extracted from the original projects of Planetside 2. The Galaxy AMS (deploy) was in the game since 2012 (e.g. 6:05, 9:50 in the YT vid), or territory resource income..
    Or a better example, GameSpy: SOE Reveals PlanetSide 2's Massive Bastion Fleet Carrier - Page 1
    Bastion fleet carrier was already planned out and fully designed in 2012. It's almost like an asset flip, in a sense, with all the updates we receive.
    So, very likely Construction was a project being designed before Planetside 2 was even out, because construction would make sense with their design... Not this design. It has no place in the current game, I know from ultimate experience. That's what I mean.

    [IMG]
  6. aversi0n

    No problem! You and the team will bring new things to PlanetSide2, they will perform better than Construction. There are some requirements to be met though. Players will have the new things in their inventory and will be able to use them in the game. Players who had fully unlocked old Construction, will get everything new for free. In addition they will get 1000 Station Cash refund. Unlocking Construction was grindy and players invested real money to speed up the process. They will also get 10000 Certs. This is a compensation fee, because their Construction elements are lost forever. If the whole project surprisingly results in a fail, I will pay your name change from “karlooo” to “wrelooo”.
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  7. karlooo

    Or that. Yeah, I understand your point of view as well of making construction have more value on the map, instead of vice-versa.
    We pretty much have it now with Routing Spire asset, it has a substantial impact. And you had this concept of adding an additional item, which would accelerate the capture time of the lattice base, which you may combine with Routing Spire support... Why not, I would just add such an item now, and see how it goes... Whether it creates a new meta, more interest in incorporating this role into outfit platoons... But I would do it ASAP cause all you can do is inspect what interaction it would bring.

    Also, off the top of my head, ANT would prob need better weapons. For example, new turret design idea (from Typhoon VDK). ANT has a square shape and such a turret design would look nice on it... The current support weapons will not work in the frontlines if it is to have such an impact on objective, directly in frontline. It cannot be that you don't have tank = you die in the Planetside 2 vehicle warfare environment. It cannot be so blank.

    [IMG]
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  8. ZORN777

    Oh, this is a Russian MRAP Typhoon with a combat module equipped with a 30mm cannon. Yes, you're right, I also had a couple of ideas to equip the Ant with a more serious weapon, this machine makes a good infantry support vehicle in frontline combat
  9. karlooo

    Looks very nice. A sexy car.
    This topic is a bit complicated because from a developer perspective you cannot be handing over weapons, however and whatever. The game is nicely categorized for a reason. For example, in a strategy game, you have a dozer that builds structures, a truck that gives you currency, the tank that breaches defenses... To give the assets strategical value. Not, the dozer is armed with an ATGM and can build and also engage tanks lol.

    But I have a bigger overview of the suggestion. It is to design unique weapon variants for the ANT, that would stand out from Sunderer fire support, but can also be applied to the Prowler tank...
    I have this perspective of removing the current Prowler design that we have now and instead reworking it into the new TR Sunderer, to replace the NS Sunderer. Like turn Prowler into a BMP almost, is the idea. BMP that functions as an AMS :D

    Because the Prowler undermines and cripples the TR, very brutally.
    It is by design a light reconnaissance tank but in game it is incomplete, has the wrong description, and is incorrectly used.
    What it needs is a rework to fix this confusion.
    And I ultimately came up with the Prowler AMS idea, because they already have the Lightening which is the true MBT. (And prowler can already deploy, needs minor adjustments to become AMS transport, doesn't impact already existing Prowler cosmetics)
    TR's traits are mass production of reliable and well-engineered items, their strength in unity.
    Lightenings are single seaters, and the Prowler matches the Lightening's height and traverse, much better than the Sunderer, so it would be perfect support vehicle combo, with their Lightening armor. Hence displaying the strength in unity and mass military production, you would visually see many tracked vehicles.

    So, that is the bigger picture of my perspective of designing new weapon variants for ANT.
    4 to be exact, to replace all 4 variants of current Prowler's guns.

    _____

    And I guess I will also mention my construction ideas here, because the ANT wasn't designed to be anywhere near the objective to begin with. I have an idea for ANT/ construction to be able to both support objective from distance like now, or support by setting a position directly inside. And therefore, this weapon upgrade suggestion may make more sense.

    The reason why Construction is forced far away from the objective with a massive no construction zone is pretty much all about performance and griefing.
    But something I don't understand is, I watched this video which ridiculed how construction destroys performance and were placing structures one by one with FPS gradually decreasing... And if this were true why not compress the number of structures into just the key ones? After multiple years of experience with this role, why did the devs ultimately decide to double the side, and add like 20 more items, 5 types of blast walls, a bridge, 3 spawns... You know, why not 1 blast wall, 1 spawn lol, as an example. Same with modules. It is obvious by now what type of passives the structures need, just integrate it in the asset itself without requiring physical modules, to actually give the structure their intended designs finally....

    And griefing... You can't grief if the structures are small, cause little obstruction and are in little numbers, aka key structures (key structures have limits in terms of distance so cannot be spammed). So, those are 2 things the devs needed to accomplish to actually be able to set construction inside the lattice bases.

    For example, we have been placing the Pillbox and Spawn Tube inside before. It is a simple small cube-shaped structure.
    Why couldn't the Pillbox be adjusted to have the same purpose as our Rebirthing Center?... Just make it include a spawn tube inside underneath the stairs, add a shield in the front and top entrance to block enemy infantry, give it passively auto repair, and one-way shielded windows for firing positions, adjust its HP based on this design... Why couldn't this be done?
    There you have one key structure for spawn purposes, small in size that functions as a Sunderer but instead in Construction form, that may be set up directly in lattice bases, just as a Sunderer...

    IMO size of structures was supposed to differentiate which ones can be integrated into the lattice bases and what should be hidden further away, which I will get to in a sec...
    From my experience of building frontline bases in the past, by memory I know that the bases must be hidden from plain view. All bases, even one's that are armed with turrets and nothing else.
    I highly despised the Skyshield module because of its glow giving away your position. I was forced to use it for protection against the lazy Flail. Therefore, from my experience, the lower, the better. (Infantry Tower was a little too high, not to mention that new skyscraper)
    And this also applies in real life as well. When an army sets up a communication device, they usually cover it with camo netting or set up trenches in between trees, in the forest. They are never like, hey shoot at me! I am here! You want to have the strategical position hidden.
    And I came up with a great suggestion which correlates with this in terms of gaining funds... Give us option to add camo to our structures through customization. Many people requested this and we do have many types of environments in game...

    Back on the topic of structure size, so old Bunker is such which most likely would not fit in any base in this game. I doubt even tech plant. Technically it's not even a bunker, you cannot use it for defensive purposes, but this could have been used as the Routing spire station instead. Add a satellite on roof, inside terminal for Routing spire and there you have it, compressed 2 structures into one. It cannot fit in objective (old design), it's designed for supporting from afar with Router, so logically you'd want to hide this... Again camo, perfect opportunity for funds.

    Walls... Walls are not that necessary if you were to have key structures and module integrated in the asset itself. There's nothing to cover anymore and walls are so easy to misuse for griefing opportunities.
    But at the same time, lattice base reinforcement would feel blank. Just a pillbox, pretty much a Sunderer. Doesn't stand out much.
    So, I designed this sketch of what the new walls may look like.
    A tringle shape, with a hole in between for infantry, who can duck behind cover or stand and shoot. The shape allows all vehicles to drive over it.
    It can double as a protective layer for the turret versions, if anyone remembers those. (I found ground turret versions better than tower turret versions because the tower versions could be attacked from all angles, where not tough. Ground turret versions could hold their ground better)
    In combination with Pillbox spawn, it may grant an alternative safe passage to another destination, protected from vehicle fire.
    [IMG]

    But there's many questions to this like if Silo has any uses anymore. Because without walls, there is no point, besides structures themselves have limited distance. Where will Cortium resources come from? Lattice Ammo Tower to simplify that'd resupply similarly to the open lattice bases designed for construction, which slowly replenish?

    It's just a new perspective I hope the devs will see. An idea, which needs to be further built upon to determine if it makes sense, but there is the introduction...
    Decrease size or height specifically, compress number of structures to have specific uses instead of dreadful money grab purposes, determine based on this intro if it can be formed towards not requiring "no construction" zones , based on clever designs of the structures themselves, to minimalize griefing methods and performance issues.
  10. ZORN777

    How are you going to convey your thoughts to the developers?
  11. karlooo

    I just post it with the hope that they will see it. To try and help them out with a new perspective.
    Or they are ignoring this thread and just don't care... I don't know.

    But I also wanted to mention something additional. I completely forgot about construction weapons.
    Here is a follow up on turrets, as a continuation of the topic above...

    So, there are many problems with the Phalanx Turrets. If they would be inserted both inside lattice bases and on the outskirts.
    Because in terms of lattice bases, even if you put a limited distance between same turret type like 100m (distance between same, for example between AV turrets is 100m, but between other turret types, AI, AA, the usual 30m), sure it can spread them out, but their design still incentivizes spam, as there are no downsides to them, they deal damage to any target and are tough. They don't have any strategical value.
    And that concept would also put a limit on outskirt defenses, when realistically that type needs more weapons.

    ...Also, when thinking about it, the AI control would also need to be brought back somehow to give them more strategical use rather than a stationary gun.
    It's mainly about the lattice link design. To simplify... Nobody cares about your spot. Even if it was directly in the lattice base itself, the lattice bases hold no value to players. It's like being mad that your Sunderer didn't spawn 2 gunners. The alert doesn't revolve around construction HIVEs anymore, the territory doesn't hold value to players... It's your spot and it is supposed to provide support to the team in unique ways different from other assets... You know. Don't want to fully explain this topic, just want to get to the point.

    I was thinking about the reason why would AI control got removed.
    • As we all know, AV turret under AI control was highly unreliable, though it could be useful in terms of countering a vehicle pull which is right beside it lol.
    • Anti-Infantry AI control was very decent area denial. Before it got removed, I once set up 3 Anti-Infantry turrets directly inside a lattice base on Oshur, all AI controlled (by cycling between accounts), and it didn't destroy, it merely denied area which could be bypassed by enemies.
    • Anti-air turrets where also very decent with AI control.
    So, by itself it was balanced but exceeding the structure limit made it unbalanced and that was likely the reason for it getting removed rather than nerfed (turrets) cause that would be much. For example, if you placed 3 AA turrets that would instantly kill any air that grazed its area.


    It wasn't about performance because we have Engineer Spitfire turrets that are AI controlled.
    And this brought me to an idea which I believe may be flawless and could be applied in both lattice base and outskirts.

    Apparently in the Planetside 2 files there were already projects of creating Spitfire alternatives, AV, AA variants that could lock on with a rocket it seems.
    Here is one post I found:
    You may have known it but I didn't, the developers have developed 3 automatic turrets, anti-inf, anti-tank and anti-air : r/Planetside (reddit.com)
    [IMG]

    And it actually may be perfect because firstly, the current Construction of creating a super fortification with everything tightly packed in some area is silly to begin with. The enemy sees it, they will take down the guns and it is disarmed. Besides from my experience base needs to be hidden, including defenses, the ground AV turret has limited firing arc, and in a sense, you lure enemy into the trap.
    And that's how these Spit fire turrets could be used, cover certain positions from multiple angles and lure enemy into a trap. This would work fine inside lattice bases as well.
    Though the question is what'd the number limit be of these Construction Spitfire variants, the limited distance between them? Air requires simple lock on deterrence; tanks require to be hit much harder. AV Spitfire turrets may need to be tougher.

    But the question is you have AV, AA (replace Phalanx Turrets).... What about anti-infantry? Because this wouldn't do much inside a lattice base other than the AA deterrence.
    And I thought, why not have just 1 powerful Phalanx Turret, with a large distance limit. lets say min 150m between these, it would be an anti-infantry Phalanx Turret ground version (not tower), with AI controls integrated (no modules as part of my suggestion above) (should be automatically locked, unless adjusted).... Just literally a Team Fortress 2, level 2 sentry gun.... Why not.
    Just the damage needs to be adjusted because it's harder to evade the ground turret version than tower turret... I know because I was exploiting some bug in the past. And obviously HP adjusted so Infantry can take it down normally if it is to be placed inside a lattice base. But it for sure could be fun from both ends.
    The idea of trenches, Pillbox spawn, AI turret... That could add a lot of color to the game. Including spitfire defenses, AA version may be suitable for offensive support. Like bringing an ANT into the lattice base your team is attacking, deploy it and set up AA. Or the trench, AA inside... Many things!
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  12. OSruinedPS1

    Where are the invisible ATV's, the clownsuit skins, revive grenade zombie battles, and everyone sitting at redeploy screen waiting for platoon leader?
  13. karlooo

    In terms of Graphics and the motion blur, I forgot to mention how you enabled it. To activate it you needed to already be using High Graphics and switch overall quality to Ultra. Then you could readjust the settings back to what you had before, while keeping motion blur.
    That's prob why very little used it, because there was a trick behind it. But it was very decent as I mentioned previously and it even enhanced colors, lighting, basically created this smooth action-packed image even with lag spikes. (prob since 2022 graphical update, motion blur removed)

    I am hearing from many people that this game is CPU hungry right now.
    And I was thinking, could all the implants add this type of brutal stress on this game?

    Because about weapon attachments, I wonder why ammo types were added to the game as well, such as Soft point. There is no logical reason for its addition... Unless there is something behind the scenes, like correction of DPS (possibly the attachments put stress on performance, maybe the original designers had trouble perfecting such a customization design and had this simple solution), as it is a no brainer to equip Soft Point ammo together with everything. And high velocity was just a lazy attempt to give illusion of choice.

    So, once again, it's like Soft Point ammo was a correction of calculation errors.
    And if attachments add stress, what can 50 Implants do? Devs added additional more weapon customizations unnecessarily...
    Jeez, what mess is this?
    Not to mention other nonsense that they did and don't even want to bring it up.

    No, we should have whole new gameplay mechanics based on FPS loss.
    Like a grenade type called disruptor that would decrease FPS of all enemies in range, to lower their efficiency.
    Or have this scout rifle that does 350% headshot damage but on body shot you lose 20 FPS.
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