Oh yea, it's that time of the day... Magrider threads!

To summarize, all we want is for each MBT to have an even chance in MBT vs MBT engagements, regardless of range and especially in close, where most combat happens. The winner would then be based on skill and not the underlying platform. Why isn't that fair?

I know all the statistics can be confusing. There are so many statistics that it is hard to show the one you really want. But first, let me explain what I meant with my vKPH comment.

Lets simplify this a lot.
On average, tank A kills 1 tank an hour.
On average, tank A lives 1 hour.
On average, tank B kills 2 tanks an hour.
On average, tank B lives 2 hours.

Which tank is better? Tank B of course. 4 kills during it's longer lifespan. Any difference between them is enlarged, as tank B can enjoy the advantage longer.
Now translate it to the Magrider. A Magrider has higher vKPH and lives longer. The small difference is enlarged.
The mistake you make is getting the total vkills involved. As the Vanguards are more abundant, they will get more kills in numbers. To continue our simplified example. Tank A has 5 tanks and tank B only one. 5 tank As kill 5 tanks in their lifetime, while 1 tank B will kill "only" 4 tanks. You then say tank A is better. (you see there is even a cutoff point at 4 before tank A gets better)

So lets look at the average vKPH and playtime shall we? I can't see it for Q4 or BR100, so we will make due with the all stats for now. We could get the Q4 stats by going to vehicle deaths per month and tally all AP Vanguard and AP Magrider kills over there, but I don't want to spend so much time on that now.
So average vKPH of the last 30 days of:
AP Vanguard: 10.55
AP Magrider: 11.27
Average playtime is here the total of all. I don't know why they call it "average", but whatever. I mean no magrider survives for 297 hours. 297/637=0.47h sounds more like it, well above 15 minutes. (total hours played/uniques=hours played per unique). Again average playtime per unique in the last 30 days:
AP Vanguard: 383.5/844=0.45h
AP Magrider: 297/637=0.47
So the Magrider is played nearly a minute more than the Vanguard. Not much, but some.

Now the last step. Lets see how much kills each gets on average before being destroyed. So we do their average lifespan times their average vKPH
0.45*10.55=4.75
0.47*11.27=5.3

The conclusion. In the last 30 days, the AP Magrider killed on average 0.55 more vehicles than the AP Vanguard. Stats are for all BR. Now if you look closely, there are some differences due to cutting down the numbers. In reality, it is 4.78 for the AP vanguard and 5.17 for the AP Magrider, so a little closer to each other.
Now look even closer..... the stat is already there! Next time, you can just skip all that and check that column to see the Magrider is doing pretty well on that subject, while the Vanguard isn't. And before you say it: Saron has 12.38 average vkills per unique and the Enforcer 12.56. They are pretty close. Interesting that they rank much higher than their primary counterparts? Not really. Most of the time people jump in a secondary when there is something to fight. This boosts the stat much higher. If we could only cut out the downtime where people are traveling and not fighting or positioning, then we could have some better numbers on the fights themselves.

All other tanks can't strafe either, meaning all shots within 300 meters are hits too if you target the mass. Actually much, much more meters, as these tanks can't strafe?
Also, you presume that all AP Vanguards have their reticle on the centre mass of the Magrider. They don't, meaning they can dodge more often due to their ability to strafe. I mean if Magriders can't dodge within 300 meters, every shot by an AP Vanguard is automatically a hit? Or automatically a hit if the engagement is within 300m? Complete bull. Strafing helps.

Hmm yes it is strong in that regard. So what do you do when you engage a Vanguard. Go head on at close or middle distance? Engage where the Vanguard is strongest? No of course not! You position, flank, fall back and wait out the shield, or come from behind, stay behind if you are good enough and destroy the tank. You can destroy the shield and the tank if you use all your advantages. The Vanguard will admittedly completely annihilate you if you play to the Vanguards strengths and not it's weaknesses.

By giving it a vector burner? How does that work?
Just say you want to give it a different nice than it has. I'll be willing to listen to that. None of this "Magrider is worse off" bull. No. Just real "I want the Magrider to gain a different nice". I'm well willing to listen, as asymmetrical balance is something that should be enhanced in this game.

And the fact that you twist what I'm saying tells me that you only read what you want to.
I'm not talking about freaking boosting over enemy tanks. I'm talking about boosting around/over objects/terrain to get flanking or even angle advantages. Also you can use this during the time a shield is active. If you don't use these things and just go head on with a Magrider, it is no wonder you lose.

The fact that you leave out mobility is misleading. You say that one is faster, suggesting it gains a ton of advantages, while the Magrider is much more mobile and able to use terrain advantages.
I'm also not saying the Magrider is superior at range. I'm saying the strafing is an excellent tool that can be better in dodging damage than the Vanguard shield.

And here we have the "Stats". If you have average vkills per unique, it is just that. It is a calculation where the vKPH*(time played/uniques). The AP Magrider performs better, and their secondaries the Enforcer is only a tiny bit better. The secondaries need more info as they are played radically different (when people start sitting in them etc.), so I'm reserved about these stats. But saying that despite the shorter life that the Vanguard can keep up? Bull. The Vanguard has a vKPH based on the kills it does in it's life span. If you kill 1 tank in a minute and die, you have a vKPH of 60. If you kill 30 tanks in an hour, you have a vKPH of 15. But that is only true if you can keep that score. Over so many samples (over 600 Magriders and over 800 Vanguards) we can have a pretty accurate guess. And Magriders kill more freaking vehicles per Magrider that is pulled than Vanguards.

I doubt you know how vKPH works.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure you understand what "unique" means.

It means "unique user" not "unique use".

This means, per player who uses the MBT. From your own experience, you should know that a single MBT does not last 25+ minutes on average, especially for "all BR" players. From dying to tank mines in seconds, to dying to hornets before you get to the fight, and getting out to fight on foot inside the next base, most MBTs do not last that long even for BR 100s let alone everyone. If you still don't believe me, look at small arms. Don't tell me you believe that the average Anchor LMG user for all BRs lives over half an hour and gets a 20+ kill streak before dying each life. That is blatantly ridiculous

The number of "uniques" simply means the average number of players on that particular day, and the Magrider has fewer players, they just play for longer on average. Personally, in an hour session, me and a gunner might get through anywhere from 3-10 tanks depending on how favourable conditions are (especially the air), and how aggressively we play. If we make it to half an hour in the same tank without dying or getting bored and doing something else, that is a rare occasion.

I get killed more by magriders when I play VS than when I play NC and TR combined.

I would just like it to be narrower, heck comming out of some spawns it hits the sides (think excavation site south is one), and a slight buff to the magburner, preferably recharge time.
ohh and something done to the side armor bug (don't know that it is a bug, but I have a bit too many suicides from hitting a tree or cliff sideways "just-so" and BOOM no more tank
Maggie is a stealth machine, I think the harasser analogy is a good one. I don't think it was ever intended to be a 1vs1 MBT winner.
with regards to the higher Br average. I think someone mentioned that you need a lot of certs put into a magrider before it is viable. I can only second that. it needs max everything. but when it is there it is more fun than the others. but to the guy thinking I'll just wiggle my way through a throng of infantry and get massive amounts of roadkills - forget it, it suck at roadkilling, except when strafing as many, many VS engineers can attest. but strafing into a group of enemies is suicide - just as driving one alone is, which is likely why there are more 2/2 maggies

just my two cents

are you maybe one of the engineers I mention above ;o)