Nerf PPA for a changed Saron

Nerf the PPA for smaller splash radius
Modify the Saron

Saron change:

• 5 shot capacity with out charge (it essentially will function the way it currently does right now).

• Added ability to charge Saron using up more ammo which will allow it to function the way the original Saron did which was 1 shot, high damage, high risk, high reward.

Lets face it, the old Saron took a lot of skill in the way it takes a lot of skill for a sniper to be good at sniping. The old Saron was essentially a 1 shot sniper cannon. If you missed the shot, you had to reload and the reload time was long to be detrimental. However if you hit the shot, massive damage was inflicted to a single target since it did not have much of a splash radius. The PPA can mow down infantry at any range and it is too strong of a siege unit especially when it is spammed in numbers. Does not take much skill either.

The current Saron is a bit too strong vs armor at close range (IMO), and decent vs infantry/MAXX's close range. BUT it is terrible vs infantry, armor, and max's at a distance. It is just too spammy and inaccurate.

I made a thread before about reverting the Saron back to its older form and it seemed like many people loved the idea, many people liked the way it was now (they most likely never played before it was changed), or they say "just use the halberd". Those people are missing the point.

I think my suggested Saron above serves a multifaceted role and will be a viable option if the PPA is nerfed. The PPA is ruining Emerald right now. So many NC and TR no longer want to fight the VS because of PPA spam. As someone the exclusively plays VS on Emerald and uses the PPA on my magrider, I agree, it needs some nerfs.

The original Saron was considered a high risk weapon?

This guy is on to something. I think this is a fair change since people didn't start Using the PPA until they nerfed the saron.

Yes because the old Saron was essentially a 1 shot sniper cannon. If you missed, then you had to reload and the reload time was long enough to make a missed shot detrimental. It also took a lot of skill to be good with the old Saron.

Before the PPA became popular, everyone was using the the older version of the Saron and no one was complaining about it being OP the way the PPA is now.

Does anyone else have any comments on this?

Can the NC get it's old Enforcer back? I don't think the Canister ever has nor ever will outperform the PPA, so if you get your AT secondary buffed to compensate for your AI secondary, surely we deserve the same?

Thats because PPA has basically no COF bloom on full auto

No it is because the old Saron was more viable in more situations.

It's a question of versatility: People want it, but more and more of it is being removed. ES AI secondaries could do minor damage to armor a number of months ago, it wasn't much... but it was enough to justify pulling AI over AV at times. The PPA projectile size was actually buffed to make up for no longer being able to damage armor, and to encourage use. Prior to this patch, I saw a healthy mix of both PPA and Saron being used.

After this patch, I saw very few PPA's in use despite the buffs - People didn't want to feel helpless vs armor, and the Saron was acceptable at defending against approaching infantry, you could actually expect a good gunner to remove approaching C4 faeries despite the precision required - now... it takes nearly an entire reload of direct hits to do the same.

After the Saron was rendered useless vs anything but armor within ~50 meters, there was a massive surge in VS AV Lightning use, while at the same time... I saw more PPA's pulled then ever before. PPA's were mounted to everything: Magriders, Harassers - I saw almost no Sarons at all, although there were still quite a few Halberds floating around. Given the choice between non versatile AV (And the worst primary cannon / inability to maintain awareness due to lack of turret) and excellent AI, what did people think the VS were going to choose?

This is a team game, and a single weapon should not be able to effectively engage all targets, at all ranges, at all times - but there is such a thing as a 'balance' that must be achieved to encourage use.

Rather then nerfing the PPA splash radius, how about a variable radius based on distance? At point blank, massive splash radius should occur... bulldog-grade splash seems close to fair. (Point blank = 25 meters and under) ... as the projectile travels, it cools - the core maintains it's potency, but it has much less of an explosive effect when striking targets far enough downrange. Combined with the massive clip size / max ammo / no-more-shield-penetration nerfs, I think this would be fair, if the proposed saron changes went in.

I LIKE this idea, even if the Saron maintained it's current state of sucking vs Infantry, it would grant enough versatility that high precision shots are rewarded , while allowing a charged shot to still blast approaching infantry. I dont mind needing to aim at a dodging C4 weilding unit (no help from splash these days ) ... but there simply is not time to do so 4-6 times in most scenarios. This alone would reduce PPA use significantly.

But the old Saron was not broken. It Even though the PPA was only useful in certain situations, it was broken. And by broken I mean absurdly over powered. The old Saron only inflects damage to a single unit. The PPA can mow down and entire crowd and contain enemies inside their spawn rooms.

I agree almost entirely, actually. I was referring more to general design decisions. I do not think that the old Saron fits the criteria I listed, but then, neither does the PPA (could not engage heavy armor at all, save for 6+ months ago, whenever that patch was.) The PPA was just too good at the job it DID do. Now that the clip size / max ammo / shield penetration elements have been toned down / removed, I'd say it's fine where it is now (Other ES AI's are now within 10% overall performance, if the data that's been floating around today is accurate.) Any further nerfing is uncalled for, given that the Magrider has the weakest overall primary cannon.

I love your Saron idea, I was sad to see the old one go. Heck, this is one place where i'd LIKE a charge mechanic.

Finally a constructive thread about the PPA.
I see too much people complaining and very few of them propose some good alternatives.

I like many ideas here, basically the PPA has now a good magazine size but it should be less effective at long & very long distance.
Like said Stormsinger, the splash raidus and even the damage should decrease gradually over the distance, the energy of the plasma balls becomes more depleted.
In return, the PPA should have more damage and the current splash radius, at very close range (within 10-15 meters).
This way this weapon will stay punishing at close range and will force the Magrider to come closer to a target.
This could allow more possibilities for the infantry players to fight back or to ambush.

Next, dngray gave a very wise idea regarding the Saron.
The Saron is bad (also the Magrider) at long ranged fights and it is a bit too good at close range.
In fact, the Magrider can hardly compete with the other two heavy tanks, when it engages targets at long distance (anchore mode / high velocity and damage of the Vanguard primary weapon)
The halberd itself is not enough to compensate the weaknesses of the supernova weapon, which are mainly the high drop and the low velocity.
Since making changes to the primary weapons will never happen, modifying the Saron to make it works like the Vortex may be something more versatile and a more interesting choice.

If people wonders why the PPA became so popular over time, it is mainly because of this few main reasons:
- people complained about the anti-infantry effectiveness of the Saron. From a one direct shot kill, to two, and to finally three.
- Av Maxes are terribly spammy, spam vs spam. Fair enough.
- The Magrider is not a good tank destroyer, it is however a very good infantery wrecker.

No.

Let's face it:
Why would the devs even buff the Beamer? As long as the NC and ESPECIALLY the TR complain about our infamous no bullet drop trait, the devs won't do crap for the VS.

You forgot slow firing.

1. Yes?
2. Yes.
3. Definitely Yes.
4. No!
5. **** No!!!
6. Oh Christ Yes!
7. Yes.
8. Yes.
9. I'm tired, I think I'll just drift of into a sleepy state of vegetatio- YES!
10. ....Maa-aa-aa-aaybe?
11. MmmmmmmmmmmmmmmYesNo.Yes.

Nice thread, seriously!

Well said mate!

Bump. Not resting until this changes is implemented.

Turn Saron in to a Lancer..
Charge up for high damage, high risk of missing.
Rapid fire like it is now for more hits at far less damage..