Move up?

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by bluEyedillusions, Jan 9, 2013.

  1. bluEyedillusions

    Why do I see so many infiltrators sniping at >200 meters? Let me preface this by saying that I play ONLY infiltrator, >90% of the time.

    If you're sniping from that far away, you're arguably contributing nothing to your team. At such ranges, you're relegated to sniping AFKers and completely stationary targets (who remain stationary for far too long).

    If you'd move up, and especially flank (to the side or behind), you would not only kill more people, faster, but you'd have much easier shots, be able to kill specific targets quicker, and overall just be more useful (for instance, within range to support with motion sensor darts).

    You're tying a hand behind your back sniping from distances in which target's head is no larger than this "O" in your 12x scope.

    I've tried to figure out why I see this behavior and I have only come up with following:
    • Some infiltrators think this is real life, and they're job is to kill a single target from a mile away.
    • Some infiltrators just don't realize how much more useful they'd be if the moved closer (and how many more kills they'd get).
    • Some infiltrators think just because they can get the odd kill here and there from that range, that they should be doing it all the time.
    • Some infiltrators are afraid that they'll be killed easier if they come within 200m of the targets.
    None of these are very good reasons for sniping that far away. There is nothing you can do at that distance, that you can't do being closer. On top of that, you're just much more effective when you're closer. Being closer is objectively better than being that far away.

    Watch anyone who's doing great sniping, and almost invariably he's <200m away in a very good flanking position.

    Is there anyone that can provide an argument for sniping 300+ meters away from the fight?

    For those of you who played Battlefield 3/Bad Company 2, you know exactly where I'm coming from. All the best recon, who were sniping, definitely weren't the guys sitting a mile away taking pot shots at people. The best ones were the ones that got closer and made each bullet count.
    • Up x 1
  2. RomulusX

    cuz i got brass ballz
    • Up x 2
  3. bluEyedillusions

    Good contribution. A+. Would read again.
    • Up x 1
  4. Weirdkitten

    Because I find it somewhat challenging and fun to consistently hit targets at that range, especially moving targets (who I'm not hitting consistently - yet). Other than that, I agree with you, youre better off dropping that 12x scope and going in closer in virtually all situations. Its surprising how easy it is to hide in plain sight while you gun down a team from within their own lines.
  5. bluEyedillusions

    I guess I can understand that if it's fun to you, then you should totally do it. It may not be helpful, but what's fun is fun and that's why people play games in the first place.

    Regarding 12x scope, I still find them useful. I use a 12x frequently, because it still gives me a great look at what I'm shooting at even at ranges <200m away. I do, however, typically opt for the 8x.

    I hope people understand what I mean by 200m. That's not close. At ~200m I'm not humping the people I'm shooting. I'm not advising to be IN their front line or anything in my OP. Just to get closer.

    Bad: This is 350m with a 12x scope:

    My OP is practically targeted at people like you see in the video. Sniping this far away just isn't helpful. To everyone doing what you see in the video: if you have fun with it, go for it, but don't think that you're better off that far away.

    Good: These videos are much more similar to how one should be sniping, if one's trying to be useful.
    Really, bizarrely close range with a bolt action. This video is an exaggeration of my points in the OP:

    Ideal sniping range/positioning that really embodies what my OP is about (and it's also a great guide):
  6. zijin_cheng

    When I'm going solo, I only do 2 things, 200m+ sniping for certs (I really want that shiny new sniper rifle :)) and solo capping. When I'm on a team, I usually hack turrets/terminals to prevent someone from spawning a tank or taking out our lib, planting mines by doorways etc.

    The only times I've gotten 20+ kills 200m away is in huge base fights, eg the crown or when rubbing up against an enemy's warpgate. When fights aren't huge, I move closer and use my pistol.
  7. icesail

    Well, for one reason because at 200m+ you have a much bigger field of vision, you can actually see all the enemy snipers that are sniping from the lines and you can take them out. Since they have to aim and be still for a second or so, you have plenty of time to take them out.
    Someone mentioned the Crown, if your team is assaulting the Crown, you can snipe at 300meters and clear snipers on the tower itself, ground, spawn, buildings, bridge, under the bridge, and on the flanks. Once you get sub 200m, you stop being able to snipe anything on top of the hill, you can't see under the bridges, you cant really clear the flank, and you will have a hard time nailing the dudes playing peep-a-boo from outcrops due to terrain clipping.

    The worst place you can be as a sniper is actually mid/long range, since EVERY class can take out targets at that range, they do not get scope sway and they are actually better at it, unless as you mentioned, they are afk or moving. Want to be effective at mid/long range and still help cap? switch to medic or HA with a 6x scope, heck use an engi with a BR, now you are supporting your peeps and keeping enemy snipers suppressed. Now you can countersnipe, and you will be very useful once your team pushes in at you need to CQC.

    At the moment, infiltrators rule 200+meters, and a few of them are needed at CQC ranges to flip terminals and cause distractions in the bases. At medium range/long, pretty much every single class will outperform a sniper, and on top of that, bring more utility to the team, in the form of AV, healing, rezing, ammo, or just simply flanking and C4.

    So it could be said that if you are an infiltrator sniping at sub 200meters and over 20 meters, (medium/long range) you are not helping your team as much as playing a different class. You just have to pling enemy infiltrators to make them useless since their scope will be all over the place. You can do that better when any weapon that you can slap a 6x scope on since none will have sway, so you will be faster to get the round downrange.
  8. sunyata1

    Awesome videos Deus thanks for posting them.
  9. Jests

    I usually snipe at ~ 200 meters, but I will say that in terms of fun factor my favorite kill I've ever gotten was (with a fair amount of luck!) with the default NC bolt action and a x7 scope at ~400-500 meters on a moving medic. I actually stopped for a second because I couldn't believe I got a headshot with that much bullet drop at that range :D Granted, I was on the side of a crater so that helped with the bullet drop, but still was a lot of fun!

    Generally though I always stick to 200 meters. Especially since I'm still on the default sniper :(
  10. Jests

    I don't know what kind of low pop server you're on, but at crown if I go outside of 200 meters Everyone renders out o_O I usually have to try to stay around 150.
  11. icesail

    Matterson..... so High Pop.
    The thing with rendering is that it also depends on how many peeps you have around you, so if you find a good area with nobody around you, you get better rendering them if you are smack in the middle of the battle.

    I can usually snipe from the hill next to tank hill from crossroads into the crown and still see people on top of the air platform up front of the tower. I can see people by the fence outside the spawn room and almost up to the door of the building with the control point on the right side.

    If you move closer to the tree, you can see inside the vehicle bay, up to the vehicle terminal or so. In a hurry, if the zerg come down your side of the hill, your rendering distance can drop to the bottom of the road from the tower.... :(

    So yah, it is hit or miss, but if you position yourself, you can get 200+ meter render distance in lots of the conflicts. Sometime you just cant get it to work at all., so you might as well go a different class.
  12. Helwyr

    I honestly don't understand what the OPer is getting at. Your best defense as a sniping Infiltrator is range (not the crap cloak), if you're killing targets at greater than 200m, that's the better option than killing them at closer ranges where the non Snipers/Vehicles can shoot back and you're likely showing up on the mini map. Also shooting at ranges of greater than 200m does not mean you aren't flanking, ideally you're doing both. Now if you have to move in closer for a better firing position then sure, but otherwise I'd be firing as far away as possible.
    • Up x 1
  13. Jests

    Mm... it depends on positioning of course, but at range you're going to be less accurate and your options for targets will be more limited. Especially if you're encountering a rendering distance problem. The optimal range vs safety I've found is around 200m, especially since you can cloak and clear your dot on the mini-map. At that range I usually cloak after every shot, until I find my next target and then decloak to fire etc. If you get much further out (and this could totally be different with the long shot, I have no experience with that gun yet) your shots become less predictable, and so does their movement vs bullet travel time. Simply put, you're just going to miss more shots outside of 200m.
  14. icesail

    The L80 is as accurate at 100meters as it is a 350meters or even 400+meters. It comes down to are you able to adjust for bullet drop.
    I have 890 kills with the L80, of those 850 are head shots. I usually snipe at 300+ meters. So I can tell you that the sniper rifles are really accurate.
    If I have to get inside 200 meters, I will play a different class, since as a sniper, I will not as effective for the team as I could be as a engie, or medic or HA, if my team still needs my services as a sniper I will switch roles to DM, and use the semi-auto sniper or the scout, so I can pling the enemies and keep their heads down and their aim off, and be able to go for the running peeps with body shots. If I am lone wolfing, then it really becomes irrelevant what range I am at.
  15. DramaticExit

    Yes. This is something I put into practice with a friend of mine. We play as a pair of infiltrators.

    He is extremely adept at close quarters, especially at night. He will enter a base or a facility and remain cloaked as much as possible. Shooting (with silencer on a pistol and a silenced semi auto) and stabbing people to death, before running off again.

    While he is doing that, I will be a distance away, sniping the people who are covering the person he's just about to kill, or killing off those who are in positions where he is unable to kill him... Or those who are about to expose his position/shoot him.

    We will be feeding one another information over voice. This combo of long range and close range stealth has an astonishingly disruptive effect on the enemy, and makes it a lot easier for our HA/LA/Medic team-mates to take the facility. Long range sniping is worthless on its own. Close range stealth is worthless on its own. The two together make for an incredibly annoying situation for the other team.

    300m is still close enough to reliably kill. Close enough to give accurate information. The goal is to generate confusion and frustration. Long range sniping in conjunction with close range stealth ninja stuff is a great way of doing it.

    Granted, being closer is often better... 200m is probably the optimum range, but longer range sniping shouldn't be discounted as worthless. There are places where the best position for that job is 300 meters from the target zone. There are places where it's closer or further away. Putting the worth of sniping on something as arbitrary as range seems like a pretty odd measurement to me.
  16. Weirdkitten

    I tend to agree that 200m is about optimum range, but as always postitioning trumps range. Sometimes the best position is 350m away at render limit, sometimes its 10m away hiding in plain sight. Hardly ever is it standing on the ridgeline with the rest of the sniper crew.
  17. HeadshotVictim

    flanking with a supressed semi-auto, shooting at ~100m range : )
    bullet-drop is okayish, dmg as well, chances of being seen: very low
  18. Jex =TE=

    300m is the limit at which infantry draw.
  19. Weirdkitten

    It's dynamic, and varies according to some arcane formula involving number of people and objects present. Sometimes its 300m, sometimes 350m, sometimes 200m and, according to legend, it can go up to about 600m. You can test this yourself by looking at people at the edge of the rendering limit standing still while they fade in and out. It's especially infuriating when it occurs midshot and fails to register.

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