[Suggestion] Making Plane Side 2 infantry-centered again...

That's basically what I was getting at with the OP.
For the ESF tardbuckets just joining the thread... this isn't an anti-air thread, this is a pro-infantry thread. Currently, using infantry is gimping your team, since anything infantry can do (outside of Tech Plants and Bio Labs) a tank/ESF/Lib can do better.

I find it amusing that people have been so brainwashed by society that they think the only way to "Fix" something they don't like is to punish people for doing what they enjoy.

The problem in this game is NOT that there are too many of this or that. THat is what makes this game so much more awesome than Battlefield.

Wouldn't it make more sense to get more people doing Anti-Air? More air that is shooting the Air-Ground planes out of the sky.

This happens with every little issue in the game. People think that the solution is punishment instead of positive reinforcement. Give people a REASON to do it.

What we really need is the people playing the game to start playing as a team though. It seems that the biggest issue with the game is people are out for themselves instead of the faction.

The Outfits of PS2 need to start developing the real tactics taht are going to make this game into more than just an FPS. We need to work on the tactics that are going to pull this from a zerg, into an organized war. We need to teach our members that when there is a ton of air attacking a base, pull back to the WG or a nearby tower and EVERYONE grab air to clear them out. Or get back to the way it was in PS1 were there were outfits that Air or tanks were all they did.

People are always complaining about the "Meta-Game". PS1 did not have a Meta-Game that was designed in. WE built the meta-game. The really smart guys that were playing the game smart developed the tactics that turned it INTO a meta game. No one seems to remember that.

Too many people are quitting the game because it isn't the same as PS1 because of meta-game, or balance, or whatever their particular pet peeve. They are not thinking about the fact that We are the ones that are going to make this game awesome when we start looking at it from a perspective where we have to make the tactics that work to make it into a game that is way better than PS1 was.

And every time they add something new to the game we have to look at it again and figure out how we can work it into the tactics to make it even better.

I am very excited for what this game can become. Every time i play i am thinking about it from a tactical standpoint. Of course i am no Malorn

Something...anything, i don't care anymore. Just bring infantry fighting back into the game.

also, the timer should start when the vehicle get destroyed, no when you pull it out.

In my mind, pilots should have some hesitation so take a vehicle. This is a powerfull tool (more powerfull than any weapon that you can buy with cert) so you shouldn't be able to use it as much as you want.

SOE have to chose between having powerfull but rare or weak and common vehicles.
If you can always have a vehicle when you want it (read: if you can keep it alive long enough to have the timer reset and all resources back) then it should only be a choice of gameplay for players, not a strategical choice. If it's something strategical, it needs to be use wisely.

If vehicles become so restricted that you can't play with them whenever you like I'll find another game to play because the infantry combat in this game is awful and boring. You die way too fast to other infantry to ever have a real fight, and the whole screen jerking when you get hit and crap like that just completely skews all infantry fights to "whoever shoots first most likely wins".

The only real problem with Infantry vs. Vehicles combat right now is that all the serious anti-vehicle firepower is tied up in the Heavy Assault class, which is a design flaw. In a game where anyone can have a vehicle at any time having one specific anti-vehicle class is not good design. That works in Battlefield were vehicles are rare, but that's not how PS2 works.

I know that an outfit that makes a coordinated pull of Heavy Assaults from a couple dug in Sunderers can give any tank or air army a serious fight, the reason why vehicles seem overpowered against infantry is because that's not what you get most of the time. Most of the time you get maybe one in ten people playing heavy assaults, with a crap load of people just zooming around on LAs or trying to farm revives on a Medic, or resupplies on an Engineer. Any given infantry formation you'll see entire huge groups of snipers.

If they just gave every class some kind of rocket launcher the apparant overpoweredness of vehicles would disappear. The only reason why vehicles will eat your lunch if you're infantry is because not enough people pull HAs to effectively fight back. HAs are insanely strong, they have the same firepower as a tank cannon or an A2A fighter in their launchers, and they cost nothing to put on the field. Vehicles shouldn't be nerfed just because most players refuse to use the tools to counter them.

Every time I kill a haggle of 3 Infiltrators with my Lightning I inevitably think "If that was 3 HAs I'd be dead now" And guess who I kill 2 minutes later? The same 3 people, still on an Infiltrator.

TL;DR The game is perfect as is. If you don't think so you're too stupid to understand. Derp.

So tell me.

Was this game DESIGNED to be infantry centric? Like CoD? This is what you guys really want I guess.

That would be a hell no.

Anyways, you nerf * outa tanks and or make me wait 20+ mins for my Prowler that I paid near 6k certs and over 60 bucks on: then I want a refund on the certs/money. If not, I will not spend a single cent more. Over 200 bucks now blown on this game, btw.

One HA can take my tank to 20% in one shot and I am also pretty much a free kill to planes since the ONLY viable GvA in this game is DUAL BURSTER MAX. Other vehicles rip me up too. This is far from god mode.

W/e man. You guys are nuts, this game was created with vehicles as a basis. Either deal with it, L2P, or preferably: go back to #%#% CoD where you #%$# belong.

Forget CoD.
In PS1 infantry was REQUIRED for EVERY base capture. You had to cert into a specific vehicle, and couldn't pull very many until you were high ranked. You had severe timers on each one that prevented you from constantly showing up in a vehicle every minute of the fight. And the infantry anti-vehicle options are worse in PS2 than in PS1 (mines, CE).

In PS2 everything can be done in vehicles better than it can be done with infantry (outside Bio Labs and Tech Plants). With separate timers/resources, you can ALWAYS be in a lightning/MBT/ESF/Lib. By this simple and obvious logic, EVERYONE should be in a vehicle at ALL times to make your team most effective.

And for all you special people who like to ride in your armored short buses, CoD had at MOST 32vs32 (up to World at War). The CoD of the current era is 9v9 at MAX. Maybe some of the people want to play an infantry game where it's more than just squad vs squad?

If you are SOOOOO about combined combat, go play BF3 where everything is out in the open and capturing things is absolutely not required. Of course then, you'll have a MUCH harder time farming infantry, but that's your problem.

In REAL combined arms, you will have 1000 infantry for every 1 vehicle with serious assault capabilities, whether it be tank, jet, bomber, destroyer, or battleship. Infantry is the HEART of any army past, present, and future. It always has been and always WILL be. Vehicles are suppose to be rediculously powerful but they're also suppose to be rediculously weak to anti-vehicle weapons. Right now the ONLY AA worth anything is the AA MAX which is the easiest thing to kill in the game (I have run circles around one before and knifed killed him from full health). Since you ONLY get points from KILLING/Destroying and nothing else, you'd get at BEST 5 certs an hour from playing as AA due to people simply flying away or suiciding/deconstructing right before the kill. Since it is basically a position where you gain almost NOTHING from other than to be a rash on some pilot's *ss, there is no benefiting in the long term from playing it. So you rarely find more than 1 AA out of every 100 people (it should be close to 1 out of 10 be AA).

Currently the food chain is as follows:
Libs>ESF>MBT>Lighting>MAX's>Infantry.

So if you use that food chain model, there should only be a handful (5 or less) of LIBs on any continent at any time. Except I end up seeing entire platoons of them flying around in the sky. Same with the ESF's and MBT's. There are just too many vehicles in the game and it's entirely encouraged due to AWFUL base design which is due to the SH**TY game engine which can't render mass infantry if it had the best super computer in the world running the game.

So devs, either fix the FU*CKING game engine or just stop doing anything with this game because it WILL die out. I am already playing less and less each day as the ONLY inch by inch battle worthwhile, to be found, is at the crown.

I think there are a couple of issues with the whole vehicle spam business. Firstly I find infantry mobility to be a real issue, once ive capped a point unless i make it to the sunderer (if there even is one) before he races off half full leaving a trail of infantry chasing after him, I'm then stranded at that point and have to go to the vehicle terminal. Since i'm at the vehicle terminal anyway I may aswell just get a tank rather than a flash since its far more useful. Therefore everyone who gets left behind will now be arriving at the next point in a tank and so this just stacks and stacks with each base capture.

A few ways to help fix this problem would simply be A: a better way to get hold of drivers attention to make them stop and fill up with passengers before they drive off therefore leaving less behind to buy tanks. B: some more xp rewards for people if they do fill up and drive people, xp rewards seems to be the best way to shape peoples actions and as it is at the moment the best way to get xp in a sundy is with respawns and to ensure you can deploy your ams in a good spot youve got to arrive first adding to this whole sundy racing out of base problem.

The second issue is that you simply earn more xp in a vehicle making it much more appealing to people as unfortunately cert earnings is pretty much the main motivation for people its in our nature to be greedy. with that in mind simply alter the xp values between vehicle and infantry based on how difficult it is, If you get a kill as an infatry you get 100xp in a tank only 50xp in a liberator -10xp or something along those lines to bring the cert earnings more in line and encourage people to play more as infantry. There is also the issue of getting no rewards for actually staying on the points when capturing bases since you get no more xp at the end and simply make yourself very vulnerable giving no incentives for people to actually get out of their tanks and help cap the bases.

Ok so you up the resource cost and force people to cert into it: this will make newbs not want to play at all. A vet will be certed and have an automatic advantage. This would make the game truely P2W, right now it's border line in that area. Do we really want to go there?

I just don't get the complaints here. HAs can rock ground vehicles and infact potentially do more dmg in one shot as a basic HA than my heavily certed Prowler. Planes are also a hard counter to MBTs since there is no weapon solutions viable to even 'deter' a plane (ie. Prowler secondary walker = DO NOT BUY). Nothing like driving to the front for 10+ mins to get insta gibbed by a couple HAs or even a single plane which makes me wonder if the complainers are playing the same game I am.

Vehicles can counter ground.
Planes can counter ground and air.
Infantry can counter ground and air.

The tools are here, readily available for infantry to destroy armor. Good players will make short work of any armor column as long as they play smart and it costs nothing: select HA and hit resupply. It's that simple, really it is.

But w/e raise the certs and resource costs; just means I will grind more to unlock and wait that 10+ mins in the spawn area waiting for my beloved Prowler to come back up for use. It's the crappiest tank in game and gets killed in 4 secs flat but I still love her...I have spent a crap load of cash to doll her up with stupid things like under lights/camos galore/hood ornaments/decals/if they add more I will spend more even though it means nothing game play wise.

No they don't. It's trivial to dodge incoming rockets at medium or long range (especially in a magrider), and it's trivial to bug out from them if you get ambushed (especially in a magrider). You either get a lock-on pea shooter which misses all the time, or a dumbfire rocket which only works effectively at short range, and even then only really in the un-buffed sides or the rear. There are a few exceptions to this (massed lock-ons can work well if you're looking down at an enemy with no cover) but in general infantry can't do much if the tanks just stay at range. Occasionally massed HA will take down a MBT or two, but usually only if the infantry heavily outnumber the armour. In general the infantry would be better if it was in a MBT itself.

Why would you ever sit in the back of a bus when you can pull armour? It's not that the bus drivers get away, it's just that there's no point in being a passenger if you can have your own MBT to roam around in.


In its current state infantry combat is needed for only a few areas (basically... removing shields on some bases, and bio lab fights), and in general, infantry is overused (though this will go away with time as people cert into cooldown reduction and better vehicles). An increase in resource requirements for vehicles would not only allow infantry to be more effective in general, but would also allow the strategic aspect of the game to have some impact on the fighting as currently resources are very rarely any sort of limitation at all. If you're a good tanker then increased resource requirements shouldn't matter much as you should be able to keep yourself alive. Similar for aircraft.

And why are you engaging tanks head on as infantry so they can dodge? Do what smart HAs do....flank and hit them in the back. Or use terrain to your advantage. 2 shots in the back end from a stock launcher can kill a tank no matter how much cash or certs they dumped into it fyi. Now imagine having multiple HAs....armor begone. Also, planes...planes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any ground vehicle. This is the real hard counter to tanks and well every thing else atm.

If they'd just stuck with the basic framework of the original then we wouldn't be having any of these arguments. Instead they've given us a distilled and noobified version of the original game with prettier graphics.
I've already grown tired of this game and I played the original for nearly two years straight.

The point is, multiple tanks is always better than multiple HA. Current resources/timers allow people to stay in tanks/aircraft forever, therefore, everyone is always better in vehicles. Are you seriously suggesting that it's better to have several HA fighting an enemy tank rather than several tanks fighting an enemy tank?

Game design has resulted in too few "infantry required" situations. Resource/timers has allowed for constant vehicle ownership. So there's no reason to be infantry, which kills the game for people who want to play as infantry. Follow?

I understnd the air hate, I don't understand the tank hate it's too easy to kill a van or mag rider with the new bazookas. It trivializes the state of rolling in a tank in this game. The problem isn't tanks it's the uncontested and almost universally undesired air portion of this game, which is terribad.

I really like flight sims, but the air game in here is like flying a giant floating box. If the controls weren't so bad, you would see twice as many people going air because it wold make in game sense. the problem with air and the developers very well know this is it's a purposed money hurdle to play the full version of this pay2play game. paying isn't the problem, the terrible air combat is.

Vehicles completely and utterly ****, pillage, and destroy other Vehicles and Infantry

Planes completely and utterly ****, pillage, and destroy Ground and Infantry

Infantry is completely and utterly *****, pillaged, and destroyed.


FTFY

Better? Yes.
Easier to replace? No.

Infantry vs. vehicles is a quantity vs. quality proposition.

Yes, you can pull a ton of vehicles in a row right now, and resources only go scarce when your faction is utterly beat into a corner, but despite all that, infantry comes back 10 seconds later usually not far from where it died, vehicles don't do that, and that's why infantry can beat them.

You like infantry only battles? CoD is for you.

Keep you #%#% CoD outa PS2 thanks.

Tools are here, readily available to counter vehicles but it's not my fault some of you can't be bothered to learn to use them.

I laugh at all the people down playing how powerful HAs are, thanks for that. 1 HA can take out 2+ tanks no problemo if he/she has any sort of clue. Just leave a lil trick here...it might surprise you: hit them in the back with a rocket. Most tank drivers are tunnel visioned so simply flanking them does wonders.

Ding, ding ding this is the reason vehicles are underpowered especially on the underpopulated faction of your server. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize to kill a tank may cost you 2 lives but will guarantee a win. The problem is and always has been the air power being completely lame, both in it's "dumbo" controls and rawkit pod nonsense.