[Suggestion] Make Light Assaults more suited for teamplay.

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by Luminiouscow, Sep 22, 2014.

  1. Rovertoo

    The way I see it, LAs are an Assault Class and should be treated that way, and not a support class. I think any tool given to them should increase their combat effectiveness like the little brother to the HA that they should be. I'd suggest grenade launchers, Higby's Rocklet rifle/Thumper sounds perfect! Different ammo types for different roles, etc!

    Another great idea I read somewhere was for a stim pack, it would be a tool that looks similar to the Medkits, and when used it would increase running speed, weapon draw speed/reload, etc. for such-and-such a time period. I think, personally, this would be downright perfect for LA, as well as adding the rocklet rifle/thumper.
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  2. Pineapple Pizza!

    How do people use them in large-scale outfit ops?
  3. Vosrash

    They have basically 2 purposes for actual squad play that doesn't involve the squad leader dropping a beacon. The first is to break seiges on towers with well placed rushes launched from the air pads at some key position and hold it just long enough for the spawn room to clear the rest of the tower out. The second is to hot drop on fairly well positioned armor locations when galaxies or valkyries are not an option, primarily sunderers, where there terrain giving elevated cover and/or some choke point making it impossible for the heavies/tanks to breach and hit those key pieces that is preventing the outfit from reaching an objective, with the recent addition of deployment shield it has become ALOT harder to do this though as the number of people who actually have 2brick C4 light assault that actually listen to squad leaders is stifling low.

    Why don't you add in tower stomping you might say, as that is a big thing of being a light assault. The reason why i don't bother to mention it is because i've never heard it called for in any sort of organized fashion, as it is just something that most squad leaders know can work and in a few select bases helps it go along but is typically listed off as something to be done once whatever medic/max/engineer levels have been accomplished to hold the points outside of said tower.
  4. Copasetic

    They don't, not seriously. You might see them switch to LA for one life to C4 something but playing dedicated LA in outfit ops is hopeless. Outfit tactics are built on the revive grenade, if you're not in a position to be revived you're useless after the first death.

    But please, if anyone knows of an outfit that does accommodate LAs without making them sit on the sidelines half the time let me know.
  5. Bankrotas

    To be fair, you can stomp towers with any kind of class and half a brain.
  6. Axehilt

    This is sort of how I feel too, but I have heard a handful of players I respect (and whose outfits were in competitive matches) did say they used 1-2 LAs in their mix of players (which was overwhelmingly MAXes and MAX support.) Which seems to indicate there is obviously a lot of room for improvement in the class (and that MAXes deserve a change in the opposite direction.)
  7. Elkren

    He threw up some ideas. He also mentioned he was bad with ideas. Pretty much asking if we could come up with better ideas not assume he wants that specific thing just because he added it as an example. As for light assaults. I do think they need some adjustments to make them more team play worthy. Most platoons I work with don't want any light assaults in squads unless it's to place a beacon somewhere high up.
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  8. RebelRanger

    What you said is true but the infil is probably more suited for getting behind the enemy. They can hack turrets and terminals, causing a real pain. Light assault can kill people, and blow up one turret(seeing as they don't blow up with 1 C4 anymore). Plus infil also does well running with a squad because of not only their hacking capabilities but also their recon tools, LA has neither of those. LA isn't completely useless, under rare circumstances I have cleared points with one though I probably could have done it with HA too, the problem with the LA is you have to be a fairly skilled player(and certed) to be useful in a squad. A default LA isn't great because they don't have C4(the best current part of LA). Plus LA doesn't exactly get very useful grenades(same as infil). The flash is always hard to tell if your enemy if fully flashed or just has an ever so slightly brighter screen. The smoke is alright but most people have access to smoke launchers so it doesn't matter much.
  9. Einharjar

    The Light Assault is the equivalent of a Paratrooper / Para-Commando.

    The purpose of such forces is to establish Air-Heads behind enemy lines by taking advantage of the fact that they can ignore Ground Terrain and insert themselves into positions that would otherwise be unobtainable through a typical ground assault.

    They create flanks and battle lines where there otherwise should NOT be and act as Quick Response Reinforcements as well.

    In role, the Troopers sow confusion, open another flank and sabotage the enemy's ability to fight through Hit and Run tactics.

    The LA fits this role and can be made to fit this role even more when considering these facts.
  10. Siilk

    What Infi is better at: getting behind the enemy line in an open-ish landscape; hit-and-run attacks on key personnel; denying base assets(terminals, turrets etc); indirect recon of a small area via detection tools; providing long-range fire support(sniper duty); guarding/denying capture of cap points.

    What LA is better at: Base insertion/building assault from an unexpected position(scaling cliffs/walls/buildings etc); continuously harassing enemy from a position, unreachable for non-LA troops; being a real threat for enemy vehicular infantry support(especially so inside the bases), direct recon of a large area via observing enemy movements from a high vantage point, spotting and communicating this data via voicecomm; providing both short and mid-range direct fire support for the advancing troops(designated marksman duty) due to higher flexibility of their carbines(compared to Infi's more specialized weapons) and ability to reach better vantage points if necessary; assaulting cap points due to higher(compared to Infi) health value.

    So in my opinion, value of both classes as covert ops/commandos seems to be more or less equal with each class focusing on performing different tasks. Obviously, both LAs and Infis should constitute only a small part of the assault force, probably a single fire team of each class(2-3 Infis, 3-4 LAs) for a 25-30 men of conventional troops.

    Such commando squads should work together to establish strong presence behind the front line and communicate closely with the main force, providing recon and suppressing the targets, designated by the outfit command. While assaulting an objective, this fire teams should either engage the enemy reinforcements to soften them up and slow their advance or (if allowed by terrain and enemy formation)perform a flanking attack of the objective, ambushing defenders and forcing them to turn some attention from the main vector of attack.

    This is also true for an Infi. An inexperienced and uncerted Infi can't do much except some sniping and occasional terminal hacking in the area already held by friendly troops. To be effective as a commando, Infi had to send at least ~2k certs on QCQ weapon(silenced SMG and/or pistol), upgrading his cloak and investing into a couple of other quality of life upgrades. So I don't think that "vanilla" Infi can perform much better as a commando than vanilla LA.

    The lack of useful grenades is the biggest issue with LA but I guess it's sort of intentional to compensate for C4, which is often viewed as borderline OP. It might be resolved by giving stun grenades to LAs while changing their loadout so that they will have to choose between grenades or C4 charges.
  11. Smokki

    Why not give the recon drone for Light Assault as a tool?
  12. Rovertoo

    I think Higby is planning to have that be a consumable for all classes, supposedly a new class of items. He mentioned having it be the same as a single-use Flash calldown, ammo calldown, etc. Maybe they'll work like utility though.

    Personally though, I'd like an assault tool. Like a grenade launcher with different versions like the Heavy Assault.
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  13. Alkezo

    How about, instead of a teleport pad, an elevator pad? This allows LA to place a pad that acts similar to elevators in bases but with significantly less vertical reach. The pads would only allow other classes to get on top of smaller buildings, probably not towers. While it would take some of the role of sneaking on enemies at unsuspecting angles from LA, adding elevator pads would drastically increase the squad play potential for them.
  14. Demigan

    Hmm, yes you are right. I do see one problem with it: Any gravity beam you enter makes you immune to fall damage for as long as you don't touch the ground. I fear it would be used to jump down from high places safely with larger groups.
    Also, how does this gravlift work? Can you choose which direction it goes? (up or down). Is it selectable before you place it, after you place it (press E to change direction).
    Perhaps instead of a gravlift it would better be a jumppad with optional landing pad to better pinpoint the landing spot. Looking direction is the place it launches you towards (placing a landing pad alters this). It has a set parabolic range, almost straight up and travels you perhaps 10 meters in horizontal direction. That way you "travel" only 10 meters and can accurately get people on top of something even without the landing pad. The height of the parabole determines how easily you can reach it. Since it only travels you 10 meters you will always need to be close to the targetted landing area, preventing people from easily launching entire teams up into buildings or fortified places at range, that would go too far I think (imagine a team of MAXes that can be launched at any time, any place. No where would be safe).

    Another thing to keep in mind would be griefing. Imagine people placing a gravlift or jumppad in a busy area, launching people to uncomfortable places. That's one of the reasons I came up with a teleport pad. Besides the fact that you could use it inside buildings it would be player activated rather than whenever you step on it.
    Examples: get people stuck at roofs or making it tough to enter/exit rooms by the doorway, launch people in ravines, the middle of large enemy clusters, across obstacles far away from any fighting to simply sap time...
  15. DrBash00

    I think the LA is fine but if i would add a "robe" so a LA can help his allys to reach some higher positions (maby only slowly, and not maxes). This would give a nice outfit (like the my outfit ;-)) the possibility to do really REALLY crazy stuff...
  16. Lucidius134

    You could just give them a 2nd pistol slot (not dual wielding)
  17. Movoza

    I do like the option of Demigan for the smokescreen. Switching between your jumpjets and making a smokescreen while running away would be a great way to deal with some of the downsides of jumpjetting. You can finally use it in confined spaces and be less of a target. It would also be like a smoke grenade that can't be tossed, but can regenerate. This means that it's power is more distributed to cloaking your position and of your teammates, than obliterating the vision of the opponent. That is unless you suicide into their ranks, firing at will.
    In addition, his false signatures would be a nice addition, but might be too much like the infiltrators decoy grenades. Also, where does it get it's power from? How often can he activate it? How long is it active? I have a lot of questions before I would agree, although it is a very promising idea in my opinion.
    The scrambler is also a very good idea, but I would say that you would give it a small radius. Afterwards, you have to choose whether you knock out any communications of all spotters in range of the device, or only remove signatures of friendlies in that range.

    My own suggestion isn't necessarily for teamplay, but it would augment the LA his arsenal. Give the LA goggles in it's utility slot. By pressing f you can turn on your goggles, changing vision to the goggles you selected. This can be either night vision or heat vision, or whatever vision(s) might be best to implement. This could also be an augmented HUD, outlining identified targets within a certain range for example.
    When aiming down sights, the goggles will automatically shut down, allowing the normal ADS.
    As the LA excels in distraction and confusion, it would be very good to have the LA himself more resistant to it's own tactics. In addition, could also operate outside ADS without compromising his/her vision or mobility. The value of the LA in team situations would increase, as it could take over the HA his role to force into fortified positions, but only in a few situations if you work hard to do it. It would be, in all its name, a Light Assault.

    If you would like a more teamplay assisted utility, you can argue that the LA has more spotting electronics, outlining any opponent for any friend if spotted. This would show them hiding behind a wall for example, giving a much more complete situation awareness before going into the fray. This would set the LA his spotting apart from the infiltrator, but still adding to the spotting business.

    I'm against the transportation of people to rooftops and such. It would make some classes insanely powerful, and sapping the LA's strenght, making only one LA needed for a sh*tload of tactics.
  18. Demigan

    This actually game me another idea: flash attack. LA's could get a rechargable utility (uses jumpjet fuel) that sends out a directional flash to blind an enemy. It fires two beams at once. One is a small coned beam that has only 50% of a full flashbang power at maximum, only slightly blinding players within. The second beam is a concentrated beam that fires straight like a Lasher. Hit someone on the torso or head with it (so leg multiplier=0) and you do a 100% flash bang attack on him, blinding him completely. You can use this ability during a battle, but it saps your fuel 100%.

    An infiltrators decoy grenade need a boost anyway. The difference is that the decoy grenade is to divert attention away from the cloaker, and be used as a literal decoy to attract enemies.
    The false signatures ability would sap energy from your jumpjets. You can activate it as often and long as you like, as long as you have jumpjet energy left. It drains energy based on your certed level of the signature ability, not your jumpjet level. at maximum it could last 15+ seconds.

    I would go for removing signatures of friendlies in that range. Just knocking out spotting equipment within the scramblers range would mean it needs a very large radius to be effective. With "just" removing signatures within it's range you get very good control over the range and area you scramble.

    I love it.
    One thing that people might interject is that spotting is the infiltrators area. However, the infiltrator is more of an indirect spotter, using darts and motion spotters and not needing to be present in the area for the spot to work.
    The LA would "simply" have an augmented spotting mechanic. You could even allow him to spot enemies, then allow anyone nearby to see enemies through obstacles if it's the LA that spotted him.
    I think the LA would also benefit greatly from glasses that augment vision, especially when it can be a greater version of nightvision. It would allow LA's to do much faster assaults after he throws his smoke grenades. Instead of ADS'ing he can just run in and hipfire without problems.

    If you would like a more teamplay assisted utility, you can argue that the LA has more spotting electronics, outlining any opponent for any friend if spotted. This would show them hiding behind a wall for example, giving a much more complete situation awareness before going into the fray. This would set the LA his spotting apart from the infiltrator, but still adding to the spotting business.

    true, but what other team-assist can they give?
    Maybe if it's less a mass-transport, and more of a one-by-one transport? Create "heavy jets", they have a much more limited speed and height they can reach, but you can do two things with it:
    1: pick one player up (who gets a notification "Demigan wants to pick you up yes/no"). And carry him up somewhere.
    2: You still have less thrust and speed, but you do not have any negatives from being in the air. You can ADS or hipfire as if you are on the ground. You might be able to reach lower structures than normal but you also have more flight time in one jumpjet compared to normal jumpjets, allowing you to better fight from the air.
  19. Rovertoo

    I don't like the idea of becoming a glorified taxi service or just another support class for MAX and HA. I think the LA should be used in teamplay the same way the HA is, with Assaults. Light Assault, as per the name, I think should be built to fight but with mobility in mind instead of brute force. In my opinion Light Assault's should have their combat effectiveness increased by their new tool. That way squads know that the Light Assaults in their team can be used as an alternative to Heavy Assaults when brute force tactics fail.
  20. Copasetic

    I don't think LA needs a teamwork tool, I think it just needs a way to stay in the fight without relying on medics. Being able to reach places other classes can't is already useful for the team, what isn't useful is that the LA in your squad spends most of his time respawning and running back to the fight while everyone else just gets revived over and over. Assuming we ignore that here's what I can do for a squad already:
    • Provide recon from high places, spotting Sunderers, vehicles and infantry rushes long before people on the ground see them
    • Soften up enemies running toward my squad before they're prepared to fight
    • C4 MAXs or groups of enemies piled up at a chokepoint that my squad is holding down, allowing my squad to advance
    • Protect my squad from other LAs who are trying to do the same thing
    • Drop spawn beacons in harder to reach places, destroy spawn beacons that enemies have dropped in such places
    • Sneak up on and destroy vehicles that are parked somewhere spamming my squad
    • Distract or flashbang enemies (lol, nah, it's garbage) while my squad pushes up, something normal classes can't do because they're stuck down there with the rest of the squad
    All that stuff helps my team indirectly and most of it can't be done by any other class, not nearly to the same degree at least. But it all counts for nothing when I get killed the first time because that's it, I'm out of the fight. Meanwhile Joe HA just died for the 5th time but it's ok, a medic threw a revive grenade and 2 seconds later he's right back in it with the rest of the squad.

    Solve that problem in a way that isn't OP and I think you'll start to see LAs used in squads a lot more.