[Suggestion] Light Assault, What are you really meant to be?

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by Alexkruchev, Jul 2, 2015.

  1. Alexkruchev

    I know this thread may be unpopular with a lot of people, but it's something that's been on my mind after many hours in game, and countless youtube videos about this class.

    I really feel the Light Assault class is defined by one gadget, and one gadget only. I don't mean the jetpack- that's a suit slot. It's defined by C4, and how it's used by the Light Assault class.

    C4 takes a lackluster anti-infantry class and turns it into, potentially, the most lethal single operator anti-sunderer and MBT killer on the battlefield. Combined with the jetpack, we get the (in)famous "C4-fu".

    While it's great fun and exhilarating, I don't think that this should be the be all and end all of how the class works.

    A Light Assault class should be, in comparison to the Heavy Assault- a more mobile, more lightly armed and armored unit. It accomplishes this with a jetpack. Yet C4 kills on vehicles are more numerous than those with any single rocket launcher or AT mine gadgets- meaning the pre-eminent way to kill enemy armor in Planetside 2... is a LA C4 rush. This means that the Light Assault is, for better or for worse, -better- at killing vehicles in the current state of the game, than the game's dedicated AT class, the HA.

    What I would like to do, is rebalance the Light Assault so it is more in tune with it's own class concept, as a mobile infantryman instead of a flying jihadist suicide bomber. Because, I love this class, and think it could, and should be so much more than a one-gadget gimmick.

    My changes:
    Primary armament: Replace Carbines with Assault Rifles. Why is an -ASSAULT- Rifle, not used by an -ASSAULT- class. ARs are meant for mid to long range outdoor combat. Carbines are meant for CQC- but the LA thrives outdoors, where it's jetpack lets it scale cliffs, mountains, hills, bunkers, and rooftops with ease- but it's carbines lack the range and punch and precision for out-door gameplay. Once more, the only recourse of the class outdoors, is to pull out C4, and go into suicide-bomber mode. The upgrade here is needed, because of what I am suggesting next.

    Gadgets: Remove C4 from the list entirely, or, if not taking the rifle change above, reduce to one brick per Light assault, and give it instead access to Anti Vehicle grenades.

    I know, this seems like castrating the class, but it's really not, if you have a little perspective. If It has AV grenades, (say, a default of two of them, instead of one), it could actually kill light armor with just the grenades if you built it right- but it would take time. Time for people to counter it. But at the same moment- this change actually increases class survivability: You can throw an AT grenade a lot farther than a C4 pack, and there is no risk of dying before the grenade goes off, ruining your efforts. (All of us C4 fairies know full well how annoying it is to get a pack or two of C4 on target- and die before we can hit the button.). This improves survivability, and general versatility. Keeping one pack of C4, however, means we can -hurt- tanks and vehicles badly, but not kill them on our own, unless we have grenade bandoliers- but that way, we have to dedicate ourselves to that task in specific, and actually make sacrifices to do so- instead of it being a given that we will have 2 C4 bricks in that slot. With AV grenades, and a C4 brick, we can kill, or set on fire any vehicle in the game, but not as easily as before- giving them less frustration, and us more survivability, especially when it comes to killing MAX units- we can use AV grenades without blowing ourselves up as often, while being effective anti-max units at the same time.

    Optional: Keep carbines, and add battle rifles to the arsenal of the LA- that way it could serve as much of a mid-long range role as the engineer or medic can, without losing anything.
    Also, if removing C4, may consider making the Archer AT rifle into a gadget slot for the LA, replacing C4, and combining with AV grenades to have a light anti vehicle class that specializes in harassing enemy vehicles from odd angles. (Keep in mind, the Archer does a lot more damage on sides and rears of vehicles than the front- where engineers typically have to shoot them.)

    The class now serves a light-assault purpose in truth as well as name: Doing AT a bit less than HAs, but still a credible threat, especially when teamplay is a factor.
    More versatile class, with enhanced open field capabilities, and a less gimmicky playstyle.
    Less hate from the sizable number of LA haters out there.
    Did I mention assault rifles? Come on. We all know those are -wasted- on the combat medic class.
    Improved survivability against maxes and vehicles, due to longer range of engagement against vehicles.

    Slight to moderate loss of anti-vehicle capabilities. Other than that, we're getting essentially flat upgrades here.
    • Up x 1
  2. Iridar51

    Jet Pack is ability slot.
    Things like grenade bandoleer and nanoweave armor are suit slots.
    C4 is utility slot.
    Get your words straight :confused:

    Light Assault is by no means a lackluster anti-infantry class. It's just a bit weaker in straight up duels, and unlike HA takes a piece of brain to use. Still invaluable in base attack and defense.

    "C4 fu" comes from belthazor3457, and he's actually in the minority. I don't know anyone else who promotes the use of LA exclusively as C4 delivery platform with such zeal. Light Assault is not defined by C4, which is mostly an anti-MAX tool or infantry mass murder device in hands of LA.

    Helping to kill sunderers is useful, but LA won't be able to take out a sundy solo.

    C4 can also be used to "snipe" a particularly impudent tanker, but due to numerous limitations (one attempt per life, requires close range), for overall anti-vehicle work it's better to pull own AP tank.

    I don't know where you got your "C4 is the best AV weapon in the game" thing, it's false. You can easily see that, for example, on the Oracle of Death site. You can use "Monthly Weapon Stats" pages to see for yourself.

    Rocket Launchers have combined average vehicle Kills-per-hour of 128.79, while the C4 has vehicle KPH of 59.77. And don't forget that C4 is available to all classes except infiltrator.
    For comparison, Tank Mine has vehicle KPH of 195.82

    Since your post is based on the false premise, I didn't read past that intro.
    • Up x 3
  3. Alexkruchev

    You really should take a look- whether or not everything I suggest is sound, or based on the soundest premise, doesn't mean the changes aren't worth considering. I think it'd be a fun new way to structure the class. I also wrote this at a rather early time this morning, so my apologies.

    Thank you for your feedback, but please do not comment on any more of my posts unless you're respectful enough to read the whole thing.
  4. Iridar51

    You demand respect, yet you show little. You don't respect people enough to check whether the premise for your suggestion is actually true. In other words, you didn't do enough research.

    You can't expect people to read a 3 page essay if the first page already disqualifies the suggestion. The rest of the post is likely to be of the same quality, so why should anyone bother?
    • Up x 1
  5. SupaFlea

    Irid does have a point, as a one of better known LA of our TR cobalt all of his stats and and ideas are derived from the past 2 years of game play.

    If the Devs had changed the game based on yours ideas without looking at the real stats then it would be a pickle no, leaving room for more solo MBT junkies that can do a heck of a lot more dmg at the cost of MBT than the equivalent cost i n C4 bricks and the ability to repair and rearm at no cost. same with rockets, no cost the rearm.

    The fact is only skilled C4 users vs careless tunnel vision vehicle drivers is how vehicle kills happen. no amount of LA should get near a tank in open ground if it had any talented driver.

    C4 myself is Anti Max and when opportunity and willing on my part for a potential suicide run to flank a tank for the safety of my fellow TR happens then it become AV.

    AR would be to powerful for LA imo despite how much i would like the boost in 1vs1 but camping LA's with silencer would be as much a pain in the patooty as snipers then.

    Think of LA as Sherman Tanks vs Tigers during WW2, the Sherman Had close distance fast and flank to have max advantage in combat :)

    My only wanting for my LA which is my primary class 90% of the time is more useful to my squad, not altered ways to kill things, that should be the Devs priority, 2 Years and still no LA Equipment bit.

    Light Assault is not defined by C4. I write this too so maybe you people finally understand. C4 is extremely situational, while medkits are much more versatile choice and better when fighting infantry.

    I would like to know who told you that vehicle kills with C4 are more numerous than with Rocket launcher.

    Giving LA an Assault rifle would be very overpowered, and extremely overpowered for NC. I honestly can't imagine how LA sniping with NC9-Tross would get it into a Live server.
    I don't see any point in threads titled "how to change LA" because LA doesn't need any change. It is a combat class just like HA, but with higher skill celling.
    • Up x 1
  7. Ryo313

    LA is an ambush class.
    and dmn that drifter jet + shotgun combo is brutal.
    • Up x 1
  8. Imp C Bravo

    The jetpack is the single most powerful anything in the game. If you get first shot one someone you win 85+ percent of the time. The jetpack makes LAs able to position and hit guys from any direction they want pretty much at will.

    Yes, you are expected to C4 and maybe that isn't cool. But LA is ridiculously good at gunfights when used properly.
  9. IronMouse

    This isn't true. Jet-packs are awesome, but aren't most powerful in any way. You need to be extremely aware of your surroundings to use them properly, very responsive and aggressive - but even then you can't take every variable into account. Often you'll be killed even if you do everything right.

    You CAN jump one infantry, but if you don't kill him fast enough due to distance or whatever other reason, you'll be spotted or heard and the whole platoon will come after you.

    Jet-packs need to be faster, and a few extra gadgets to our class wouldn't hurt.
  10. Imp C Bravo

    See, you yourself just said what I'm talking about. I've bolded the important part.

    Jetpacks aren't easy. And more to the point, their use requires you to run away often. However, a highly skilled light assault that does what you just said needs to be done has a far longer operation time than any other class except snipers -- and they are getting more objective focused work done. The skill ceiling on them is higher -- but that just means that while the people who hit that skill ceiling will be fewer in number -- they have more potential.
  11. Alexkruchev

    Good points there, I appreciate your feedback. That said, I don't think we should balance vehicles and gadgets based on what a "skilled driver" can do, or a "skilled user" can do with it, it's a matter of what the average and bulk of the community can and do accomplish with those tools. Balancing for the unicum makes everything get nerfed into the ground, as opposed to buffed to equality. That said, I understand people's objections.

    As far as respect, I've plenty for other people's points of view. A mistake isn't disrespect- it's a mistake. I still think those changes I suggested have merit, even if my original reasoning for them aren't the best in basis. I do really appreciate the comprehensive responses, however. Also, keep in mind some of these changes were partial or take-as-you-will. They're thoughts for changes, not a manifesto.

    As to the comment which asked where I got my info from about C4, I realized -that- was from a months old thread, and I assumed that things hadn't changed in the player-based statistics department. I apologize.

    I can't make people read my posts completely, but if you're going to tear me a new one, please do so comprehensively, including all of what I say. Or skip the posts and thread entirely. Keeping comments constructive is something these Forums desperately need.

    ... frankly, I'd like the class to at least have access to the Battle rifles, which no one uses anyway, because I think it would synergize well with it, and every single other class has access to it, except the one that can cloak- and it has flat upgraded versions of it in it's arsenal.
  12. Alexkruchev

    I agree. I would support more changes like that- my alterations were meant to shift the way the class works a bit to be more tied to other squad mates.

    I think adding the Battle Rifles would be a good start, giving the class a mild marksman ability.
    Maybe adding the Archer as an option, would be interesting as a harassment and anti-max tool.
    I'd like to see maybe the LA having maybe a consumable revive kit, so they could be an emergency medic. Counter-spotting equipment would be cool, as suggested elsewhere.

    I firmly disagree with

    Since NC LA's can use the AX-11C carbine, which with HVA does the same rough damage at range as the Tross (And the Reaper DMR is the one you should be more afraid of the two) and has almost the same muzzle velocity and accuracy. They already can- and it's not a big issue due to those weapons not being as powerful as some people think they are. They... just have a higher skill ceiling, harder to use, but more potential if you have the practice and skill behind them.

    Yeah, maybe AC-11X is the weapon which most resembles Assault rifle to you, but even when you reach high muzzle velocity with carbine, an Assault rifle will always have less recoil and better bursting.
    It is not only NC, but every faction. LA running with weapon like H-V45 or CyclerTRV sounds terrifying at least to me.
    Then, what would be the point of Carbines in this game?

    I think you don't understand the concept of balance or you didn't played much LA, but suggestion to give LA a Battle rifle is even more broken than AR and using "no one uses them" as an excuse is bad.

    Giving the Archer to Light assault sounds good, it would make him more useful to his squad. But then again: Who would run a support weapon on combat class?
  14. Iridar51

    H-V45 and Cycler TRV are actually pretty bad examples, since they have worse recoil patterns than Serpent and GD-7F. So much so, that higher velocity doesn't mean much in this case. Other ARs are noticeably more powerful than carbines at range, though.

    Not sure why battle rifles would be OP. Is Blackhand OP? It's basically a semi auto sniper rifle, even with just 4 rounds.

    If LA had ARs, carbines would be more or less pointless, though still a competitive choice for close range. And don't forget about the Engineer.
  15. IronMouse

    That is very relative. An equally skilled HA will score far more kills, as well as MAX or an Infiltrator.

    I've just noticed that many, many BR100 players with high directive points on Cobalt either camp from within spawn-rooms like crazy, use MAX suits extensively or don't get their butts out of their tanks. That's disgraceful in my humble opinion.

    LA is the most superawesomeultramegagiga class that does have a high skill ceiling. It's fun as hell if you're good at it. But it's FAR from as powerful as you're making it sound. If anything, our JJ are underpowered.

    Once again, shame on all those "elite" cowards, respect to all those awesome LA with balls of steel.
  16. InterSpectra

    I main Light Assault certainly for the Jetpack, and high potential (there's a physics joke here somewhere) since it's not pigeon holed into a set role. As much as I use C-4 to punish ill positioned infantry/vehicles, it's the Jetpack that allows me that mobility to get there.

    Because we have no tools, I treat my trusty Flash, and taxi Scythe as tools to help get things done.
    Light Assaults got the short end of the stick during development. Perhaps part of the reason why they never fully fleshed out our class is due to the fact we have that extra edge to ignore walls and look from above, and they couldn't find a balancing act both in infantry battles, and anti-vehicle capabilities.

    I mean, a squad of them is deadly in its own right, and you know something is going to blow up..

    Though I know my style of play is hardly the norm, I don't believe in K/D moreso than getting things taken care of. Pick an objective and try to accomplish it; fail and just maybe you'll get another chance (not so much respawn, but restart).
    Whatever the Devs decide to do with LA I'll stick with the class, but it'll definitely change the game if anti-vehicle capabilities were tweaked for LAs.
  17. Imp C Bravo

    We will have to disagree on the whole HA vs LA kills thing. I would think the other way around. Some of the highest scoring guys on PS4 are neither. I think number 1 is an infiltrator?

    Regardless -- and this is just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt -- catching people from anywhere except the front almost ALWAYS wins a fight. JJs make LA literally the best at that.
  18. Iridar51

    Since when PS4 has any weight? I'd rather we pretend like it's a completely different, unrelated game, like dungeon dwarfress or crowd funding online.
    • Up x 1
  19. Imp C Bravo

    That's a tad elitist don't you think? I mean -- it's planetside 2 man. Not everything in the PC version is in the PS4 version yet -- but most of it is, we are all loving the hell out of it, and the game plays the same...
  20. Iridar51

    Probably a lot elitist. Don't I have a reason though? Consoles have a history of simplifying games to be enjoyed by a casual player. Console and PC gaming just have different purposes.

    One is for relaxing on a couch with a bunch of friends, having a beer in one hand, a bag of chips in another hand, and lazily kicking the controller with the left leg.

    I'm not particularly against console players, I just don't believe that demographic has anything to do with any half-serious gaming, and PS2 doesn't seem like a game a typical console player would enjoy.

    The game maybe the same, but it's played by different people, who are used to different games, and have no idea how to play PS2.
    • Up x 1